need suggestion for song...no listening involved

> > > need suggestion for song...no listening involved

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Member Since: Jan 18, 2003

ive got a song i really like, and which i think i could actually complete. it just came to me while watching tv. i've recorded the two sections i have, but here's the problem. it's just verse/chorus.

thats a good thing in a way. i mean, i was listening to zombie by the cranberries and creep by radiohead the other day, and those songs are one riff all the way through, you know.

but those songs also have builds. they have slow sections and loud sections. this song must rock all the way through. there is no room for 'build.' the verses are distorted and energetic and short, and the chorus is short. the problem is that its gonna sound repetetive. unless...

what? bridge? i dont want to slow down the song in any way.

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Pinnipedal Czar (: 3=
Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004

Oct 27, 2005 10:24 pm

Add some 'lil accents maybe ? A pregnant-pause ? Builds within the guitar's gain ? You had alot of good ideas with Heathen... maybe look at that a bit ? Not listening to it does make it a bit difficult to not sound like stabbing in the dark . Perhaps deviate from the mindset you're using that dictates it should be anything else but what it is ?... allow ?

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Oct 27, 2005 10:26 pm

forty, dont know if this is what your looking for but its an idea.

What I used to do when I had a problem like that would be to just do a key change either, usually something drastic. Keeping the pace of the tune but with some simple changes just to break up the monotany. It can be very short space wise, and even done in a couple differant places if it needs to be.

So you could get away without having a bridge that has no buildup or breakdown, just simple key change keeping pace with the flow of the tune. If I get time I might post an old piece I wrote maybe 15 or 20 years ago that used that same technique. I've been trying to update it and rework it completely with software synths. There is no real key to it, but it is very repetative yet you dont notice as the key changes distract from the droning melody line.

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003

Oct 27, 2005 11:31 pm

yeah man id love to hear that.

and actually a key change did cross my mind yesterday. forgot about that. either the standard semitone up or whole tone up trick might be the obvious thing to do here, since the song seems to maybe call for that. you know, like 'self esteem' by the offspring. not my favorite trick, but sometimes its just the thing. only problem is, its really gonna mess up my chord shapes, as this progression uses drones.

hue, ive got the pregant pauses, and this time i think they make the song. not gratutious this time. accents will definitely go in, once i get the structure decided. either a key change or a bridge is gonna be necessary....

noize, if you get around to it, ill check it out...

Member
Since: Jul 02, 2003

Oct 28, 2005 03:10 am

Really hard to say without hearing it but I think people tend too get overly hung up on having to have a bridge. Some songs they definitley add to the song, but to put one in just for the sake of having it doesn't make sense to me. I would (without knowing what it sounds like <g>) tend to go more for the accents or varying the rythm between verse/chorus.

Heck the most popular song I have (Too Much To Say) is 4 chords all the way thru yet not one comment has been made that the song is repetitive (at least not yet lol), but the rythm changes just slightly between verse & chorus. I have another song that I've had many comments that it is a bit repetitive even though the chords do change for the chorus on that one, so it really depends on how interesting the rest of the song is vocally, rythmically, and musically as to just what you need too or should do. :)

just my 2 cents, and that's about all it's worth ;)

Dan

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003

Oct 28, 2005 04:12 am

yeah i dont want to add anything. thats what im saying. some songs dont need it. the problem is that the sections are pretty short. they seem to need to be that way too.

Answer:On a good day, lipstick.
Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004

Oct 28, 2005 11:36 am

What about using differing counter melodies on other instruments. This should keep the fundamental riff in place, but add drama.

2 cents.
Of course, I'm about $1.50 down by now...

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003

Oct 28, 2005 04:18 pm

thanks for the input guys. i have a tendency to talk things to death. im just gonna have to get in there today and hammer it out. try every idea i have and see what sticks.

this one stands a good chance of being finished, as i have lyrics for once.


Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Oct 28, 2005 06:59 pm

forty, I'll see how the weekend goes. But I was planning on trying to finish the redo of that tune this weekend so I'll let ya know.

It is very off the wall to tell the truth, more of an experiment. I wrote it to try and catch a big headed guitar player off gaurd who used to brag about how he could follow any key change and make it dissappear. I proved him wrong. And messing with the tempo didnt help him out any either.

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003

Nov 22, 2005 04:08 pm

well, this is the song i was talking about, if anyone wants to listen--its in my profile now. working random title: 'link' (meaningless) for the time being.

it didnt end up being just one progression.

but it is at the moment just one verse, a prechorus, and a chorus.

i am stuck yet again. certain sections here seem jarring. whats worse, and this might be psychological, but maybe it isnt: i thought the song might rock at first, then it started seeming like it most definitely did not rock. thats the feeling i get that always makes me shelve stuff.


Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Nov 22, 2005 11:02 pm

forty, thats some drama goin on there. I loved it, lots of interesting stuff in there. I gotta listen tommorrow when I can crank it up. I like the progression you laid out there.

Member
Since: Jul 02, 2003

Nov 23, 2005 02:39 am

I think it rocks forty! I think getting a more powerful sounding bass tone would give it alot more power. To me I think the bass should be the driving force in the song, with the rest built around it. I think some drum fills could get you into and out of the chorus sections cleanly.

I really like the progression on this, you definitley should keep at it and finish this one up.

Dan

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003

Nov 23, 2005 02:52 am

you guys are a big help, thank you. i am glad you seem to accept me posting half finished stuff all the time, cuz thats what i need help with: following through. its like a second round of ideas and insight right when youre in danger of shelving it. good idea on the bass, olddog. i hadnt thought about that, but i think thats dead on.

Member
Since: Apr 24, 2003

Nov 23, 2005 10:37 am

listen to:

cardiacs - brilliant arrangements and twists while retaining the vibe of each tune
fugazi - as above, simple but effective


also try adding new elements as you go along, so it does build throughout without changing...check the clodhoppa track for how i do it...very different i know, but same principal

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003

Nov 23, 2005 02:53 pm

ah yes, i know how to add elements as i go along. i usually have hundreds of little riffs that could conceivably go over any one section. but there IS no way to do it. you just add one, let it play, then drop in another, maybe change the hat or something, too. i never do this until song structures are set, though. which, in my case, amounts to almost never, since i never finish anything. but i swear, i have ghost tracks i just store little ideas in, for every half finished tune i gots.

dont see the clodhoppa track...where?

dont know the cardiacs; fugazi i should be more familiar with than i am. can you recommend an album? i just had one mix tape back in high school that had like 2 fugazi songs, so i barely know what they sound like. which is sad.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Nov 23, 2005 05:34 pm

forty, got to listen a bit louder, well alot louder now. For some reason I was getting this mental picture of Alice Cooper beheading some poor maiden.

The tune is very bright after the intro, then smooth's out after the initial burst of guitar's. I agree on getting the bass to be a more powerfull piece of the song structure. The bass line melody is a very driving part of the tune. I think that is what is giving it that cooper like feel.

Definately dont let this one sit for sure. I can here tons of little licks in there that would surely add to the drama of this tune.

Camt wait to hear where you go with this one.

And oh ya, it friggin rocks for sure, love the wall of guitars sound youre getting.

> > > need suggestion for song...no listening involved

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