USB/MIDI Confusion

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Member Since: Oct 07, 2005

Okay, I need someone to hold my hand and speak to me like I'm four years old. I'm a guitar player, not a keyboard guy, and regardless of how much research I do the jargon and general concepts are leaving me baffled.

The goal: I'd really like to add a little Rhodes or Hammond sound to some of the stuff I'm working on right now. That's all I want. Nothing fancy.

I'm getting confused on the options and the mechanics of how it all works. This option I understand pretty well: I can fork over $500 or so for something like an Alesis QS6.2, push a few buttons and probably be up and running in no time, playing the synth in real time and sending audio into the computer just like a vocal or guitar track. No problems there.

OR...I can buy some sort of MIDI controller and use this keyboard to control internal sounds stored as VST intstruments. So far so good. I understand that the keyboard would have no real sounds of its own, and that it's just sending instructions to whatever VST plug-ins are on loaded on my computer. Got it. That sounds like a pretty nifty solution, except for a few things:

1. The MIDI/USB thing is really screwing me up. Most of what's advertised out there (in the cheapo range, anyway) are "USB MIDI Keyboard Controllers". Is the USB cable sending the MIDI information? From what I understand, the USB cable is powering these devices, but is it also taking the place of a MIDI cable or do I still need some sort of (hardware) MIDI port?

2. I'm interested in playing in real-time. There might come a day when I'll suck it up and try to learn how to sequence a part, but in the meantime I'd rather have a root canal. How realistic is my expectation that I can just plug in one of these controllers and be playing along with other tracks that I've recorded?

3. If I buy something like, say, Reason or a similar sound library -- how in the %$#@ does my recording software (Cubase SL) understand that there is an instrument being played in a completely different program running on my computer at the same time?

4. This relates to question #3 -- since Cubase and Reason would be running at the same time, wouldn't there be a serious latency issue for someone like me who's trying to play in real time? First there's a gap between the information being transmitted from the controller to the computer, then there's the time it takes for Reason to interpret the command and play the sound, the time it takes for Cubase to understand what's going on, and the time for the sound to be played within Cubase while I've got other tracks playing in the background. Clearly, there's got to be something I'm not understanding here. The answer may be as simple as "Sorry, you can't do it". Please educate me.

5. As I've said, I know nothing about this kind of stuff so I have to assume there are important questions I'm not asking. If anyone wants to chime in with additional thoughts or considerations, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks to all in advance.

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Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Oct 20, 2005 10:31 am

Yeah, the USB cable powers the device and sends the MIDI info. I recommend using the power plugin that comes with most devices, powering over USB sometimes leads to latency due to the toll on the computers power supply. I can't share extreme details on the other stuff, cuz I am not sure, but with my controller (Radium 49) I pretty much just plug in and power up, open a VST and start playing, the apps take care of much of it themselves...from what I understand it's when you get multiple devices running multiple instruments that things get sticky.

Member
Since: Oct 07, 2005


Oct 20, 2005 11:06 am

Thanks for the quick reply. The Radium 49 is one of the controllers I've looked at, but reviews at Harmony Central are pretty mixed. Anything you particularly like or dislike about it? Trouble spots? If you had it to do over again, would you buy the same thing or have you tried something you like better?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Oct 20, 2005 11:06 am

If I had to do it again I would likely buy the same one, I have had nothing but great performance with it...

?cixelsid I mA
Member
Since: Jul 30, 2005


Oct 20, 2005 10:19 pm

I have the radium 61 and haven't had any problems with it. Reason 3 is a cool program, and u can buy what they call "Refills" which are additional instrument pacakages for only $30 US. The best thing about using software synthesizers and VST instruments is that they are inexpensive and are constantly being updated and improved. I've used my laptop as the host using Cubase SL with Rewire to Reason 3. Reason also works well with Sonar 4 or higher. You'll spend hours just experimenting with the awesome sounds Reason offers.

?cixelsid I mA
Member
Since: Jul 30, 2005


Oct 20, 2005 10:24 pm

One other thing. Latency will be an issue if u don't have a decent sound card that supports ASIO or WDM drivers.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Oct 23, 2005 03:22 pm

dmn23, the latency issue can be a thing to contend with, but usually isnt tha bad. As Soundmind put it you should have an above average cound card for this type of work, but it can be done with and SB type card as well.

I dont know if I would jump right into Reason for starting out. There are tones of good VSTi out there that will do what you need them to do.

And here is the deal on the programs running together or not. Reason of course runs in what is called ReWire, which is part of Cubase and Sonar as well as a few other now. What it does is locks the two together so they essentially share all the same controls and elements to make the sound. The better option and simpler for you to run would be to just go the VSTi route. This means the software synth runs natively in Cubase. You simply use the midi track and audio track together and it allows you to record your midi data while playing back what you allready have. The software instument will play in real time while you record the parts to midi, then on playback the midi track simply plays the VSTi on the audio track.

As for latency, you can honestly get by with up to maybe 20ms of latency before you really take notice of the delay. As well if you have a low budget sound card and the delay is to much, if you can make it through and record the parts in real time you can simply slide the recorded data over in the end to get it to fit.

Hope this helps ya out a bit. Let me know if there are any other questions.

Member
Since: Oct 07, 2005


Oct 25, 2005 09:39 am

Noize2u, your help is much appreciated. I stopped by the local EnormoCoportate music store this weekend, swallowed my pride and asked one of the bored, pimply-faced kids to walk me through the pros and cons of both approaches. Imagine my surprise to find out the guy was actually pretty knowledgable!

I got to see the process in action, and it makes more sense now. One of the other plusses of heading down there was that I discovered I really don't like the feel of the keys on the M-Audio controllers. The Edirol and Novation boards felt much better. So it pays to do your research, and you guys have certainly helped in that regard. Thanks to all!

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Oct 26, 2005 07:58 pm

Glad it helped ya out.

And ya, a synth weighted controller is kinda differant to get used to. That is what i used for years and finally broke down and spent big money on a Fatar StudioLogic SL-1100. Fully piano weighted keys, aftertouch and lots of other goodies. For me though it is a needed evil as the weighted keys help since I grew up playing real piano's. Which for the real expressive stuff it is a great help, but not really needed by the average user.

And ya, going out and trying things is the best way to get exactly what you want.

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