A brand spanking new interface
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Posted on Apr 03, 2005 04:01 am
colonel_sanders
edit0r
Member Since: Aug 17, 2004
Well, im might be looking to upgrade the aardvark in the future and im looking for something along the lines of the protools HD system, but of course, a lot less expense!
Im looking for a pure A/D/A converter (no pre amps!) of the highest quality that i can afford. im not sure quite what my budget is quite yet, but its defintely not protools HD cost.....
It needs to be expandable as well.
Looking for a big step up in qualtiy, any body got any ideas?
Cheers
C_S
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jmailjimmie neutronMember
Since: Feb 14, 2005
Apr 03, 2005 09:50 am What computer do you have, Mac or PC; which OS? Desktop or laptop? How "strong" is it? Are you looking at PCI, Firewire or USB? Do you want to spend a grand? Or half that? I just go me an EMU 1820M for that half mark (my Win2k being a determing factor), but wanted an RME or Apogee. ADAT lightpipe was a "requirement" for me in order to get a friend's XT20 tapes into my computer, but the ADAT can be used to "expand" to 16 inputs on the EMU using something like the Behringer ADA8000 (my price-range)...
So you could spend from, say $500 to $5000 just for the interface, for 44.1 to 196kHz recordings from 16 to 32 bit depths, and still not be done with the piggy bank. If you're after decent ADAC, something in the RME or MOTU line might be your ticket. Some not quite as expensive as Apogee or Protools, but nothing to sneeze at.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 03, 2005 02:00 pm I recomend to stay away from Firewire for the time being. At least untill they get all the bugs worked out. I have seen a glut of post's lately with peep's who arent getting all the channels to work and such. And they are just being told it is the software they use. I dont buy that at all. Same thing happened with USB in the beggining as well.
But CS, MOTU is making one of the best middle of the road lines I know of today. And I know ESI is making a unit that might be up your alley as well. The PCI card is set up to accept up to four interfaces when the i/o becomes needed. The MOTU units are similar as they to can be stacked or added to as more channels are needed.
GeoffSM7b the Chuck Noris of Mic'sContributor
Since: Jun 20, 2002
Apr 03, 2005 05:09 pm Echo and M-audio have PCI card that you can stack togeather and the delta 101 works fine like that . A note Avid owns both Digidesign and M-audio and a # of software and hardware companies, believe they're going to be around for a while so investing in there products seems logical and they have been doing well in this business too.
Apr 03, 2005 05:13 pm Well J mail, the pc is in my profile. its a desktop PC 3.4 ghz, 2 gig of ram running XP pro. And definitely looking at PCI after noizes little paragraph there.
So noize, whats in between motu and digidesign, sought of middle high of the road. Also do you know any models of MOTU or ESI that might interest me off the top of your head?
Hey Geoff, didnt know that digidesign owned M-audio, cheers man. you can stack the aardvarks too though.
Cheers guys.
GeoffSM7b the Chuck Noris of Mic'sContributor
Since: Jun 20, 2002
Apr 03, 2005 05:42 pm if I'm not mistaken most of the consumer digi stuff is firewire or usb ,at one time they had a PCI card but don't sell it anymore . I have friend who is MOTU nutts and has had nothing but good to say about there PCI products, he's had problems with the firewire gear but the PCI gear has been solid. I was trying to find a ECI interface that had 8-10 inputs , and I've had no luck maybe dB or Noize could help.
dido on the aardvark ,but the aardvark is going under and the other are not .
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 03, 2005 05:53 pm CS, here is the page to the MOTU PCI interfaces.
www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/
They can be combined in any fashion as I stated up to fours units per card. And in the case of the 24Io that is a huge bit of A/D input, like 96 channels on one PCI card. And these units wont flinch at all to the load.
The most versitile unit to start with is the 2408mk3, as it incorperates several interface functions along with 8 dedicated channels of analog i/o.
I did a set-up for a guy using the 24I/O with 4 units on the one card, and it was splendidly easy to get set-up. Everything routed to patchbays and then out to his desk. The all 1/4" balanced makes it easy to accomadate any desk.
As for ESI interfaces. Here is the unit I am currently using, along with their Waveterminal 192M. This one is the ESP1010. www.esi-pro.com/viewProduct.php?pid=49&page=1
The big gun for these guys which will compete with the MOTU stuff is the MaXiO DX. www.maxioxd.com/
They have a dedicated page to the specs for this unit as it is their ultra high end and expandable unit.
I have not tried the ESI MaXiO unit yet, but judging form the performance of their other interrfaces, I would guess them to be of equal quality.
As for the mid-high road. The MOTU gear is probably right there. I have to admit the stability of the MOTU stuff is ranked abit hgigher then the Digidesign stuff. Just for the simple reason they have been doing it longer. And interfaces both audio and midi is what they do best.
I think the ESI unit is going to be a bit higher priced then the MOTU stuff though. And it also contains pre's which you dont really need either. I guess in all honesty, I would opt for the MOTU units as they really seem to fit the bill for your needs. A nice simple A/D D/A converter system that is straight forward and easy to use and set-up.
Let me know if you have any other questions. I'll be on and off the board for the rest of the afternoon here.
Apr 05, 2005 02:29 am So noize, as youve had hands on experience what is the quality off the 24 I/O, 192 HD, Maxio DX and the ESP1010 compared to the delta 1010 and the aardvark? and also the digi design HD 192 and so on?
Also what kind of prices are the ESI interfaces retailing for these days? never seen them before.
Cheers
C_S
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 05, 2005 10:52 pm CS, I am not sure what the current prices on the ESI stuff are. But there website links to sellers in specific areas so hpaefully they have one in your area.
I only ran the ESP 1010 for a quick test of the install so far as I just recieved it last week. But if it is anything like the Waveterminal 192M I have been using for the last 6 months I have to say I am really happy with it. The control is much better then my Delta and the drivers seem as stable if not maybe a bit more stable. They were a bit touchy to install though on my older machine but went in like a dream on the newer PC. I found the ESP 1010 to be the same. And the control panel for the 1010 was even more comlete then the 192. They have an application that I use here often called DirectWire and no one else has anything similar at all. It allows me to connect any mof my applicationa directly to each other without leaving the digital environment. So if I want to record a stream direct from Media Player,Quicktime or what ever. I just open the DirectWire panel and hook it into Wavelab or Sonar or what have you and record it. I have an older version of a filter bank that cannot be automated via Sonar or any other app for that matter. So to use it an tweak it and have the output recorded live while I do so. I just hook Sonar to WAvelab via the DirectWire and tweak my filter and it record in real time to Wavelab. Then I just dump the file back inot Sonar. The new version of DirecWire will actually let me hook it right back into Sonar now as well.
Performance wise, the MOTU stuff has a bit lower noise floor, but its very minimal. Comparing the ESI stuff to M-Audio, I will honestly be sticking with the ESI hardware myself. And the AdVark unit has a bit higher noise floor then either the M-Audio or the ESI gear to answer that question.
As for the HD 192, I personally like the MOTU gear better. They are really very close when you compare then side by side. IF I had the need for that heavy of a set-up, I would opt for the MOTU 24 i/o myself. I have not had the chance to try out the MaXiO DX yet, and not sure that I will. I dont really need the pre-amp section of it so it really wouldnt be my first choice. But that said, if it compares to their other gear I would think performance wise it would be a good piece of gear. I like the fact MOTU and ESi have those pieces that easily stack into one PCI card.
And as a side note here. I did the install of the ESP 1010 right alongside my Waveterminal, and they played very well together like good kids should.
Apr 08, 2005 07:06 pm So noize, looking at the prices of the MOTU gear, they they look Very cheap compared to the digigesign gear, and in the case of the 24/I/O, its almost the same price as an aardvark?!
So comparing the A/D conversion head to head with the aardvark, is there a straight up, noticible difference between the two units? Is it worth my while upgrading from the aardvark to the 24/I/O?
My logic tells me that although an aardvark is $500 less expensive it comes with built in preamps in the unit itself, but my logic also tells me that the MOTU 24 I/O has 24 ins, which would cost $1500 to acheive with 3 delta 10/10's, which is the same price as the MOTU 24 I/O.
My logic is a mess today but still, it says there cant be a significant increase in quality compared to the delta 10/10's if it costs the same as delta 10/10's........
Argh
C_S
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 09, 2005 06:08 pm Well the MOTU converters are much better then the Aardvarkk, or most others for that matter. The big differance is that it is simply a 24 i/o unit. All 1/4" TRS. No fancy bells and whistles at all. Just straight ahead quality and funtionality. It is really meant for those who will be using it with their own pre-amps and such, or without.
As for upgrading or noticing a differance. That is a yes and no really. Yes you will notice it has a much lower noise floor then the Aardvark, and several others as well. what it will gain you is a better signal to noise ratio.
What it all boils down to is are you ready for the upgrade, or I should say the extra i/o. If the Aardvark is getting the job done right now, maybe its best to wait. But if you are finding you do not have enough ins and outs with the Aardvark at times. Then yes it might be a good time to upgrade.
And remember that once you install the one interface card in your PC that will allow the addition of 3 more 24i/o units for a total of 96 ins and outs. That is probably more then you will ever need. But then again, maybe not.
Apr 13, 2005 04:48 am Well noize, I would "like" to have more inputs as eat up at least 8 on drum micing (would like to shift to 10) which limits me to overdub recording, but its not absolutely imperative at the moment. And i am getting the job done. Im really just doing some research for the future. Besides, i need some more money to satisfy my gear lust.
So the main difference in A/D converters in the MOTU and Aardvark, is the noise floor?
Somethings still not clicking with this one.
What about something like the 01V from Yamaha. Any experience with that?
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 13, 2005 10:42 pm The 01V is nice but again you will be limited as to how much i/o you will be able to use at once. That is the main reason I have stayed away from the digital desk like that. Not enough live i/o.
As for the differance between the Ardvark and the MOTU unit. There are more differance for sure, but noise is the biggest one to me. They can print all the specs they want but hooking it up and actually recording just the inputs with nothing hooked up to them. Then zooming in as high as you can and look at the signal you get. That is really the only way to tell the truth about an interface. My Delta and my ESI Waveterminal carry approximately the same written spec. But in doing actual recording with it, and the test above, the Waveterminal 192M blows the Delta away. Its self noise is just a tiny bit over half of what the Delta is. And to me that pretty incredible for a card that cost that little. So in my humble opinion, yes there are more things that give the MOTU 24i/o a bit of an advantage ovet the Ardvark, but the self noise thing is important to me during quiet passages.
Apr 14, 2005 04:42 am So how do those units compare to the digidesign 192 HD in quality. And why does the 192 HD have a HD core card when the others only have PCI?
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 15, 2005 10:44 pm The HD192 uses the same PCI card that the 24i/o and the others use the PCI 424. They are all connectable to that card. You can mix and match units as well.
THe HD 192 is a 12 channel Balanced XLR i/o with 1 channel of stereo AES/EBU digital. As well as having word clock on board. And it is capable of doing 192khz as opposed to the 24i/o maxing out at 96khz. But honestly the 96khz is more then sufficiant.
Apr 18, 2005 01:31 am Well cheers noize, for all the info., i think i might wait out a bit to buy another interface.....
These specs are To confusing, need to learn some more.
Thanks again man
C_S
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 18, 2005 10:01 pm Ya, if your Ardvarkk is working for now no sense in upgrading unless the need it really there for it. And the info and understanding of the stuff will come in time as you get to see how some of the other equipment functions.
