Insurance
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Posted on Oct 27, 2004 02:58 pm
Jason H.
Jack of all trades master of ___
Member Since: May 28, 2004
I love this site...that's why I am the HRC pimp as some of you will see on my site when it arrives...
I always try to come up with good threads if I start em...and I think I got one here...
Insurance on your equipment...I am in a home with home-owners insurance, but how is your *** covered if schlep-rock with a beer in his hand disobeys the "no food or drink in the studio" law (often broken in many places) and spills on on your brand new Motif???
Somewhat similar to when you or your spouse drops that wedding ring down the ole sink drain...typically its insured and you get a new one at no cost...I think...
Figured I would throw this out here since it seems to be a good topic...I found one place that does this specifically...its called www.musicproinsurance.com
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Oct 27, 2004 03:04 pm If you itemize your studio on your insurance policy your are covered. That's what I do...actually, I should prolly update that one of these days...and if you get into business with your studio you will also want to consider liability insurance as well...as well as incorporating to protect your person assets from business issues, so they can sue "the business" but not "the person".
Jason H.Jack of all trades master of ___Member
Since: May 28, 2004
Oct 27, 2004 03:23 pm I figured so...I got quoted at that place. And I had to basically do the same which was list out all my stuff and it's worth, then the quoted me on it...
$50 full coverage for the year...
Oct 27, 2004 03:28 pm Personally, I don't wanna buy insurance off of some web site, I want a local agent I can talk to and shake hands with.
Jason H.Jack of all trades master of ___Member
Since: May 28, 2004
Oct 27, 2004 03:36 pm Yeah, thats something that matters to me also...Considering I got quoted in June and still don't have it itemized...
Oct 27, 2004 04:30 pm I was looking at this...I counted it all up one day and it run into the thousands (and my "studio" itself is modest) - the guitars, amps, pre's and mics as well as s/ware and hardware soon mount up.
So, I too really should do this...could come in handy for when a few beers lead to a few more and the inevitable dreaded "spillage" occurs!
Coco.
Oct 27, 2004 04:32 pm argh, I'd hate to think what I have spent on music over the years...but actually lately i have been thinning out, getting rid of old "live" stuff that I will never use again, tradingit in for studio stuff, rack and software stuff...my studio is actually shrinking, but more powerful...weird...
Jason H.Jack of all trades master of ___Member
Since: May 28, 2004
Oct 27, 2004 04:56 pm I have plugged atleast a few grand since I started (year 2000)...Like dB, I don't like to think about it. But the wishlist grows on and on...This is why my PC is riding ole school Pentium 2...the only reason I would need a new PC is to get out of the stone age, but for me...it ain't broke, so I am in no rush to fix it..
Speaking of getting rid of ole gear. I have a Korg ER-1 I need to move......
LokiCone PokerMember
Since: Apr 07, 2002
Oct 27, 2004 05:12 pm jason - how much you asking for it?
Oct 27, 2004 05:29 pm I've only ever had basic house contents insurance...never really had anything worth insuring really - I mean house contents-wise...but like you say...when you start thinking about it...
Don't know about the States and Europe, but here (the insurance company we've used for 20 yrs) basic home contents covers all items up to NZ$2000 in some cases up to $3000...after that everything has to be itemised.
Cheers,
BM
Jason H.Jack of all trades master of ___Member
Since: May 28, 2004
Oct 27, 2004 05:38 pm Ummm....I dunno yet...It's in perfect working condition...I haven't used it in a while...but I have pretty much everything to it...including instructions & box...No physical damage...cracks, dents or missing buttons...just wear and tear across the graphics on the top...from when I was cleaning it and found out the paint was really senitive...
Let me go home and inspect it, and see if I have everything to it...and I will message you later...I want to make sure its reasonable for both of us if you are interested...
wrmach I'm Roscoooo P. ColtraneMember
Since: Apr 12, 2003
Oct 27, 2004 06:54 pm I've been thinking about insurance for some time too.
Oct 27, 2004 07:04 pm Hey Wrmach
How ya doing..no seen ya for a wee while.
Aye - I thinks, most insurances will cover up to x amount then its single items listed, otherwise, yer screwed.
Am gonna make a definitive list and get a quote. Otherwise, I could really be cryin for a LONG time if it all went up in smoke/water/whatever.
Coco.
Oct 27, 2004 07:50 pm And, in addition to insurance, fi you actually plan to start a business out of it there is much more to consider than just that...believe me, I have been looking into all this A LOT lately. laws, incorporating, taxes and such things are very different from country to country, but in the US I am starting to figure it out...insurance is the least of it.
However, if you are just keeping a project studio, not as a business, it's less.
One thing to consider tho, at least in the US is to makeit a business, then you can write off all your expenses (gear) from your taxes, and if you "don't get any work" you just claim losses for a few years and close the business :-)
Jason H.Jack of all trades master of ___Member
Since: May 28, 2004
Oct 27, 2004 08:20 pm I read up on all that, not to be confused with "I have it all up here..." But I went to Barnes and Noble and got me a book on how to form an LLC (by Nolo) which is a wise classification of business if one chooses to...I also read up on the net alot. As for taxes...it's not really that comlicated, once you get an idea. Somewhere in the book it notes that with an LLC, there is the possibility of filing the LLC with your personal form. ...In Minnesota, what you would need to do (besides all the reading and understanding) is reserve your name (optional) with the secretary of state ($35)...and when you get your 'Articles of Organization' filled out...its another $135 (I think) to our great state...
I was a hair on a mosquitos *** from forming one...pretty cool stuff to learn...
the LLC is the easiest and most leanient to form. And if it fails...you are not personally responsible for business debt (so they can't take your car, house etc...) If you cancel the LLC, cuz of losses, bankruptcy or whatever...you can form a new one the next day because it's a totally different entitiy....
Oct 27, 2004 08:21 pm Yeah, my tax guy said the s-corp has better tax benefits than an LLC, I can't remember exactly what they were right now, but my tax guy has been great to me over the years, so I went with it.
Jason H.Jack of all trades master of ___Member
Since: May 28, 2004
Oct 27, 2004 08:24 pm well..I am not an expert by any means...it was my understanding that it was the other way around...The s-corp used to be the LLC, before the LLC existed...But I'll look around here and see if I notice anything
Oct 27, 2004 08:34 pm yeah, I am no expert either, but my tax guy is (close to retirement, been doing the tax thing for 40 years +)
as I understand it you can do lots of things that LLC makes harder...I know what I am doing is this:
- renting my studio space to my business
- renting my home office to my business
- leasing my car to my business
- renting the garage space to store the leased car
and this comes in as unearned income and is not taxed like earned income, there is also some differences in employee handling if I recall. I am hiring my wife as the bookeeper and one of her employemnt benefits is health insurance for her and her family (including me) paid for the the company.
Also, thing deducted from taxes are mileage on the leased car, gear, computer parts, cell phone, internet connection, software and such other business related things.
WillumIdiot.Member
Since: Apr 22, 2004
Oct 27, 2004 09:27 pm that's damn smart dB! :D
I might have to look into something like that...
Oct 27, 2004 09:41 pm Will, dude! wassup, dog?
WillumIdiot.Member
Since: Apr 22, 2004
Oct 27, 2004 10:45 pm that's damn smart dB! :D
I might have to look into something like that...
WillumIdiot.Member
Since: Apr 22, 2004
Oct 28, 2004 02:12 am argh.. my net is being funny it seems.
Heh.. not heaps is up but I'm MEGA busy at the mo.. all livin in Oz and stuff.
I'm getting down with the home recording stuff soon, got a whole bunch of gear I'm waiting to put together with some friends.
We're going to create a monster 'box' thing that we can cart round to gigs and stuff and have 18 ins of pleasurable audio orgasmness... I'll make sure I fill ya in when it gets done. :D
In the meantime I'm trying to figure out how the hell to insure my house and all that stuff.. fun fun fun!
Oct 28, 2004 06:30 am good for you Will, glad to hear your back home...weren't you in the UK for a while or sumthin'? The box idea is good, I did that a little bit, had a rack of gear with a mixer and multitracker (8 analog tracks...woohoo) that got moved around, it was pretty cool, lots of work though...
Jason H, another big diff (BIG diff in my book) between limited liability parnerships and companies (LLP's and LLC's) those you need to apply for every year, corporations you apply for once and your done. For s-corps you apply for the corp status, when you get that you have 75 days to apply for s-corp tax status (small corporation) and you are done...for life. So there is only one fee. LL*'s have a fee yearly.
riffgodwww.charlienaebeck.comMember
Since: Apr 10, 2004
Oct 28, 2004 04:26 pm Hmm.... Good idea's DB, I do the car, cell phone, and some gear under my S-Corp at the moment, but didn't think about renting space out to the company. heheheh
The only thing about an S-Corp and putting gear under the company though is if someone comes after you to sue your company or if your company goes belly up, the gear will have to be sold outright to cover any debts the company had/has. That would be the only downside in my opinion which is why I don't write off a lot of my gear under the company because I am too attatched to it I guess you could say. ;)
If you don't mind about that risk though its a good way to get your investment back on your gear and you can depreciate it over time pretty much on your taxes which helps also.
Jason H.Jack of all trades master of ___Member
Since: May 28, 2004
Oct 28, 2004 05:50 pm Well to each his own as the ole saying goes...
The reason I read up on an LLC over anything else is that I work for a commercial architecture firm and we don't do big accounts...we do alot of indidual work for small private 'upstarting' businesses from salons to software developers and I have yet to see one of these new businesses form an S-corp...Not saying S-Corps suck...
I pay attention to small biz's for the reason of hoping to have my own. Even with a lot of our developers who do real estate, most are llc's...
And ANY small business debt does not make you personally liable...so even if one were to get a small business loan and go in the tank...Unlike an S-corp, it's all off you're hands...To me, that's worth the renewal any day...$135 vs possibly thousands when in the tank??? I would prefer to wake up in the morning after tanking, see the sun rise, and have all my stuff without worrying about what the law is going to take in order to work out business debts...
And like anything else in life, we don't do things perfect on the first try...so just the thought of having limited liabilities on the first try...
I don't care which route I go...whatever one allows me more cushion for mistakes is going to be my choice...I don't have a degree or any of that, so the most leanient yet official way of legal operation is that way I choose...
If after a year or two I figure an LLC sucks...then its time for change...simplistic as that...
Oct 28, 2004 06:00 pm If you go in the tank, and you are the only "shareholder", than really, you owe nothing to anyone except yourself...
But, yeah, you're right, whatever works. After much research and comparison, I decided on S-Corp.
wrmach I'm Roscoooo P. ColtraneMember
Since: Apr 12, 2003
Oct 28, 2004 08:31 pm Hey coco, been doin' alot of runing lately. Plus, not feelin' all that well. Anyway, I've been thinkin' about this for some time. Never know when you'll need it.
take it easy bro.
Oct 28, 2004 08:41 pm Running Wrmach?? Likesay...physical running dude?? Ah, no for me buddy...thats why God gave cars to us!
hehe. Aye, insurance quote is pendin..spoke to the company today. Now, lets see how much these suckas try to sting me for!!
Good to hear from ya bud.
Coco.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Oct 28, 2004 09:56 pm Well, I'm with dB on the s-corp thing as well. I have been told it is a better alternative for my porpuses.
As for the insurance thing. I was covered under the home owners policy originaly, that is untill they added up the value of all the gear. I ended up having to purchase a seperate policy which is actually just an addition to the homeowners to keep it at a minimul cost.
Anyway, I had to take photo's of everything, front and back. That included cords, blank recording meida ,spare guitar strings, repair parts, everything single little thing had to be on the list, no matter how trivial. Then all model and serial numbers as well. Silly as it seems, I guess I agree it is important. So needless to say, every thing related to music in this house is now covered.
Oct 29, 2004 05:10 am Yeah Noize...sounds like house contents insurance policies are similar the world over.
Same here ie taking serial numbers etc, altho' I wasn't asked for photos...just receipts re value of item to be insured.
If anything happened to the gear, I'd be crying longer than Coco...
Cheers,
BM
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Oct 29, 2004 09:14 am Yup, I'm with Noise on the insurance.
First tip: Get an insurance agent you can trust. They are salespeople. Buying and collecting are two hugely different concepts. Often a simple "rider" to a home insurance can do very well. Per Noise, most good "riders" are really contingent upon good proof of ownership and condition.
Now for business, that is a whole nother horse! Especialy if you are going to have the public in your space for the purpose of doing business. Public liability is a MONSTER. Especially if you are boozing it up. Now your talking drugs as they apply to business law. And at least in the US "asumption of risk" is a lost concept. Some fool raps himself aside the head with his stick, you get to pay for the stick, 10 thousand x-rays, psychological damage, bla, bla, bla. Alchol on board and everybody starts duckin and dogin, and there you are with the bag.
Per corporation, as dB states sub-S is a pretty good choice as long as you get a good accountant. I for one would not care to devote 60% of my time trying to keep up with current laws. Absence of knowledge is no excuse in an audit or challange. The other piece of it is the work involved. Do the math first. In dB's case I'm sure there is some money flowing to justify the work of record keeping, but it is real easy to find yourself working behind a desk for $0.02 / hr. at year end. Then we get into zoning and business taxes where a township,etc. attaches itself to the value of your equipment and you pay out the nose. My first experience with that was when I first partnered and one day a man with a court finding walked in and wanted cash for back "summer" taxes or he would start hauling out equpiment to cover the taxes. My new to me partner had let them lapse.
The biggest single difference is whether you are walking out the door as a workman with your tools or bringing the public in to your "place" of business.
Oct 29, 2004 09:24 am Actually, I am doing all the record keeping myself...er, wait, I mean my wife is doing it, so I can give her health benefits. But really, as I have seen the main trick to doing it is making damn sure you have TWO checking accounts. One personal/family and one for business, and NEVER let their roles cross. ALL business expenses come out of the business account ALL personal out of the personal.
Then, at least what I have done is made an excel spreadsheet which, every day I get when I get home I enter the date, where I was, the miles to and from there and any expenses such as bus fare. Then, on the other side of that spreadsheet I have columns for expenses, such as my new sound card, business cards, internet connection bill and such things.
Then, at the very top of the spread sheet excel adds up all the appropriate columns for simple and quick totals which I give to my tax guy.
What I do recommend for sure is having a good tax guy to do your taxes, but for regular accounting, eh, it's not too tough to do yourself...or so it seems so far.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Oct 29, 2004 10:07 am You threw me for a moment there dB. I gotcha, symantics between bookeeping and accounting. Ya, it's crazy to hire an acountant to do bookeeping. I know some that do and they pay a lot! They walk in the door with bags full of receipts and plop them on the acountant. Ya where the good acountant comes in is to keep your "wife" up to date with what to acount for and what "bucket" to put it in. The woman I had was great. She was also IRS agent and she kept me tight with current trends and changes. It was really cool. I used QuickBooks and I'd ship her a file every month. End-0-year was a snap, and because she had to actualy do so little, her services were very reasonable.
Oct 29, 2004 10:11 am Yeah, I use MS Money myself and track personal, business, IRA investments, mortgage and all that in there...and most of it online, super quick and easy.
But yeah, good book keeping really makes EOQ or EOY type stuff very simple, just have all the numbers with ya and boom, easy as hell!
Odds are you have been doing this a hell of a lot longer than me, I am working most in theory, only in practice for a couple months...right now just training myself to get into good habits.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Oct 29, 2004 10:32 am You'll be great! The other consideration was that I was part service and part retail. Once you sell a "product" i.e. sales tax, your into another mucked up mess. That's another place where the states are toying around with the whole intelectual (god I wish I could spell sometimes) properties vs physical properties nightmare. Anaolgy: The origional picture went for $1M. Knock-offs go for $5.00. States want that action.
Oct 29, 2004 10:41 am Ah, yes, the old sales tax trick...I never got much into that, I just figured it into the price and dealt with paying the taxes on my own...however, I was small so they never looked at me...I am entering a whole new world now and have thought about the whole sales tax thing...though, the lions share of my invoicing will be in onsite consulting through various consulting firms (I already have a good relationship with a couple), so I am not really in that nasty retail crap...thankfully.
And thanks for the vote of confidence. :-)
Oct 29, 2004 03:33 pm Sounds like you've got a good handle on things so far dB...
Also sounds like there are similarities between the States and here...
One thing though, would equipment like 'sound cards' in your line of business, not be capital expenditure rather than business? Just a thought...
And aye...doing as much as possible yourself rather than lining others' pockets is always a good option if you have the abilities...also as per Walt if you're using others, only pay out what you have to.
Here we have gst - goods and services tax - so its added to all goods and to all services...do you have anything like that in the States?
Cheers and good luck to ya dB,
BM
Oct 29, 2004 03:36 pm According to my tax guy, all that stuff is a deductable expense, what he wants to call it is his problem :-)
He just have "Sales Tax" that applies to everything except necessities, such as food and clothing...including any services and stuff...
Jason H.Jack of all trades master of ___Member
Since: May 28, 2004
Dec 14, 2004 05:06 pm Well I called up for this insurance issue...According to this insurance guy most home owners and renters insurance will not cover equipment used for business purposes within the home...even if you receive one nickel for your services
He suggested I get a commercial policy for my stuff in order to have it covered...I dunno
