May 24, 2004 06:56 pm Welcome Mark! Ahhh, that's all for now...just welcome. I don't use the same software etc. so I can't help much. But again welcome....somebody here will be on top of it.
need some help with home rec setup
Posted on May 24, 2004 04:54 pm
phrygian
Member Since: May 24, 2004
Hey everyone I am new to this forum and so far it looks fantastic.
My request for help is a bit involved so I will try and be brief but thorough. I have a 14 channel Nady console that all instruments and mics (it has phantom pwr) run through. They go from there (from main stereo outs on rear of console)into an M-Audio fw 410 then into my computer then into Sonar producer 3.1. My monitors are klipsch surround system with 4 speakers and one subwoofer connected with two plugs left and right. This leaves 6 additional outs left unused. What I would like to do if possible is connect 2 or so of these outs on soundcard's rear into the board for zero latency monitoring while also getting good levels for what I am recording along with the previously recorded tracks. The reason behind this desire is that with M-Audio card and their software control panel, I have to enable the Aux sends within the software to hear what I have recorded if the tracks have been routed to any of the available outs, but as they are "virtual" outs with nothing actually connected to the soundcard hardware. I hope this makes sense to someone that would like to assist me. I am trying to achieve zero latency and am unable at this time to hear my instrument over the other previously recorded tracks with this "aux" environment. Thank you so much for being here.
Best Regards,
Mark
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May 24, 2004 06:56 pm Welcome Mark! Ahhh, that's all for now...just welcome. I don't use the same software etc. so I can't help much. But again welcome....somebody here will be on top of it.
May 24, 2004 08:22 pm Thanks Walt...
This forum sure seems like a great place to be if you are "one-of-us". Musician and/or a home recordist...(is that a word?)
Thanks
Mark
May 24, 2004 08:39 pm Welcome to HRC.
I am not sure exactly what you are trying to do, but I will toss out a couple ideas.
1- surround sound is worthless with Sonar, as it does not support more than two channel stereo.
2- Just because a sound card has 10 outs doesn't mean you have to use them all ;-)
In Sonar you can route aux outs to a different out of your sound card but I am unsure of how this will help you achieve any lower latency. With your setup, assuming you are using the ASIO drivers, your latency should be around, probably under, 10 ms...
May 24, 2004 08:46 pm What I am trying to do is (knowing that the main outs of console are connected to the front panel "IN's" of my soundcard)connect two or so of my additional outs from soundcard back "IN" to an unused input on the same mixing console that is connected already to the same soundcard....Phew I hope you understand that...
Thanks for your help already....
Sincerely
Mark
May 25, 2004 04:41 am ah, OK, I was reading it all backwards...does your console have any sub-bussing or anything, or just two main outs? If there are subs then just use those, otherwise you have two options. getting a "Y" cable to use on each of the main outs so it can go out to two ins, or, running aux loops sends to the sound card ins.
May 25, 2004 02:37 pm well I am not sure about the sub-bussing which is probably a "NO". Besides the main outs on rear there is a pair of control room outs(or ins?)and of course the headphone output. I am not sure I follow the Y cable application you mentioned or the "aux" loops suggestion please explain...I think that this may be the solution...(my gut tells me)
And I just want to mention how much I appreciate your help on this. It is a great resource for any musician, and well....Thanks.
Regards,
Mark
May 25, 2004 02:57 pm What is sounds like to me that you want not only to use your console as input for you card but you also want to use it to monitor your mix, right?
if the mixer you're using is the SRM-14X then you don't have a multitrack bus or direct outs. Basically the purpose of this mixer is to submix to stereo, which i'm sure you're aware of. I don't think it is possible (at least not conveniently) to do what you're asking.
of course if that's not what you mean then disregard...
What is your signal flow like when recording?
May 25, 2004 07:56 pm Hey El musico,
Yes That is my exact mixer!Do you think you could recommend a more suitable one with maybe a power amp built in? One that is not too too much more money.
Mackie right? There must be some reason everyone says Mackie. Is it the only way to fly?
In regard to my signal flow...what exactly are you asking? What is it litterally or how does it work for me?
Thanks so much for the info...
Regards,
Mark
May 25, 2004 08:59 pm I might be wrong here, but generally the powered mixer I have found to be better suited for small PA systems, not really for the studio.
Mackie is not the only answer, though many people like to think so. Mackie does indeed make great mixers, but so does Behringer. Mackie mixers have a bit better preamps in them, which are really only audibly better in a few specific situations with specific instruments. Behringer costs half of what Mackies do, but are still about 95% of a a Mackie is. Many of us here use Behringers, I for one am very happy with mine.
May 25, 2004 09:43 pm Db... got a question about the whole sub-bus to computer route :
What if you run your dynamics-processors through the main inserts... doesn't the sub-out miss all that ? I tried doing this just today, but I had to go back to the 'ol, main-outs to recorder-in, and then of course, got fed-back on .8-/
Am I missing something ?
Just reverse it ?... subs to amp ?
Oh, and phrygain : You want to stay away from using a powered mixer to record with... dB's right, when he says they're not for the studio... too much noize is produced by the amp, and they're not optimal as far as signal path is concerned ... and welcome !
May 25, 2004 10:35 pm Hey Thanks,
I did not know that....less noize is always a good thing..
Thanks again for all the great advice and opinion.
Regards,
Mark in Vegas
May 26, 2004 04:41 am Hue, yes, you would miss out on the sub bussing in that situation. The main outs are typically the full mix of music, which is why I say to send sub busses to the PC, because sub busses are made to route only specified channels to help listen to playback of the tracks without actually recording them again. While you CAN do the same thing with main outs, it's not really the standard conventional way of doing things.
May 26, 2004 06:42 am I sappose I could run the subs through the dynamics, and then into the computer, but I really like the 'cleanliness' of using the main inserts. Don't wanna use 'em in the aux-bus... oh well, back to the 'ol drawing board . :-)
May 26, 2004 06:43 am If it works for you the way you are doing it, then stick with it.
May 26, 2004 11:31 am hey phrygian,
I would recommend a mixer that has the track count you need INCLUDING a multritrack buss (at least 4 but 8 is better). you can use this to submix your output still, and use it to monitor your main mix from the soundcard. but you still need to output from the mixer to an amp for your monitors, unless you pick up active monitors.
as for which mixer? my own preference would be mackie. i've had nothing but trouble with behringer, but many here on this board use them and dig them.
honestly though, if you plan on submixing everything to stereo and recording that signal just keep what you have and output from the 410 to an amp for your monitors. i don't use Sonar so i can't help you with your routing problems. perhaps you can explain further... i don't see why you need to mess with aux sends inorder to hear the main mix. please elaborate... if you were to start a session to record one thing, what would you do?
May 26, 2004 09:27 pm Inthe control panel for M-Audio FW410 they actually enable the host software to connect to 10 "virtual" outs. 8 audio and 2 S/Pdif. For instance if I have drums and bass going to buss 1 and then I would map them out through channels 1/2 stereo. Then I would lats say have guitars 1 2 and 3 sent to buss two and on out virtual channels 3/4. Then maybe piano and strings to buss three and out virtual channels 5/6, then lastly Vox would take the 4th buss and out 7/8.
This is all the while only really having the mix run out into my speakers through hardware channels 1/2.
Hope this explains...
Thanks
Mark
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