Drum sound secrets

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Member Since: Oct 03, 2002

Our band just starting doing our own recordings..and our drums still sound a little weak. Whats the secret to getting huge drum sounds (Like Deftones Digital bath ;) ;) I know i'm Nieve to think we could ever get that good a sound, but we have pretty good equipment, We've tried alot of commonly used techniques, but it still sounds amature..any other suggestions? we're using cuBase SX, mx324x eurorack, 4in4out soundcard, sm57's for toms and snare, pg81 for overheads and audio technique kick mic (good quailty, forgot number) so please..share you're setups/techniques..

Mike

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Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Oct 03, 2002 10:06 am

You are not naive at all, you can get good drum sounds at home, with your mics and setup you should be able to. First, what sound amatuer, any specific drum or the mix as a whole? And what "common techniques" did you try? Are you compressing it or anything like that?

I don't record drums often any more, but when I do it seems the kick and the snare are the hardest to get a good sound from. What are your problem areas more precisely?

Member
Since: Oct 03, 2002


Oct 03, 2002 10:35 am

we tried the techniques here

homerecording.about.com/g...rum-sounds.html

it helped a little, The kick is a problem, when we get a good loud level, close to 0db, we get a horrid bassy rattle noise from the monitor speakers.. (Foxtex PM1's) so we have to turn down the gain and the fader, the signal is weaker, it just sounds weak. same w/ snare. are we suppose to normalize bass and snare?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Oct 03, 2002 10:45 am

For the kick it may help to scope out the EQ on it a bit. Lower the mids and keep the highs and lows up...that might help, plus add punch to the frequencies of the kick that make it sound bigger...the top and bottom.

As far the snare EQ might do a lot as well...read this:

www.dbmasters.net/hrc/new...story&id=38

It might give you some ideas to play with.

Member
Since: Oct 03, 2002


Oct 03, 2002 11:31 am

thanks for the tips..off to the studio to test this out ;)

mike

Contributor
Since: Sep 09, 2002


Oct 03, 2002 12:18 pm

modeSeven, that wicked presence you hear in Deftones - "Digital Bath" is indeed a result of compression and EQ like everybody said, I just wanted to emphasize the band's use of reverb. It's amazing what a little reverb will do to a snare drum. Try it out. -j

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Oct 03, 2002 08:49 pm

A little judicious use of reverb anc EQ together, can make all the differance inthe world. And as dB stated, don't forget the compression on that kick and snare.

Member
Since: Jul 11, 2002


Oct 04, 2002 08:11 am

The Deftones and most all other professional bands use at least a small amount or even a complete triggered drum sound. I sometimes use up to two or three different triggered sounds blended with the original to get the sound a band wants. Email me if you need more info. gmontis@columbus.rr.com

Typo Szar
Member
Since: Jul 04, 2002


Oct 04, 2002 09:24 am

i read an article one time, in modern drummer magazine about this 80's drummer who was voted like most sampled and big drum sound ever. and he said his main secret was really tight drums, recorded in a medium sized brick wall room with the mics alittle further than usual. i use similarly the same technique, ive always hated adding reverb to drums on my own, coz i just cant the right amount. but a good room can do alot for ur set. also tight hard sounding drums make for a big impression. theres little secrets to each piece to get teh best sound. try them out. like less padding inside ur bass drum etc.

Contributor
Since: Sep 09, 2002


Oct 05, 2002 02:55 am

tripnek, what do you mean "triggered"? you mean there are sound samples as well? -j

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Oct 05, 2002 04:20 am

Yes, meaning when the drummer hits a drum, it triggers a sampled drum sound instead of recording the actual drum itself...pretty darn cool actually.

Member
Since: Oct 03, 2002


Oct 05, 2002 03:42 pm

is there a tool/plugin that you can take, let's say a bass drum track... and replace all the bass recorded wave forms w/ a sampled waveform? in essence doing what a trigger does w/out the hardware? I mean this is possible yet VERY painstaking to do manully, i thought maybe there would a program that does it for you...

Contributor
Since: Sep 09, 2002


Oct 07, 2002 05:05 am

man, i remember reading about several VST's that do just that. In fact I think this might be one of them:

www.phreque.com/~tobybear/PeakFreak.zip

but i could be wrong. It looks like it recognizes peaks in the audio and produces midi notes. Im sure the midi notes could be used to trigger a sampler?? Let me know if you figure it out, that'd be awesome. -j

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Oct 07, 2002 10:06 pm

Yep, that is onw of them. And you will also find the same type application in Sonar, and other version's of CakeWalk. It take's some messing around to get it to work right, but when you get it dialed in, it make's for easy replacment of a bad sound.

Member
Since: Oct 17, 2002


Oct 17, 2002 10:42 am

for some real sounds poke around in here
samples.artistcollaboration.com/ open the folders.. it will bring you to a load of stuff.

(Newbie, watch the language please, this is a family friendly forum. Thanks, Loki)

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Oct 17, 2002 10:56 am

Hey newbie, you should add that link to our directory...that's pretty useful info...thanks for sharing.

Member
Since: Jul 30, 2005


Jul 30, 2005 08:03 am

Okay, I suppose this is an exceptionally long shot, but awhile ago when modeseven.net was actually not dead I downloaded an MP3 off of it of a song called Ebb. I was quite fond of this song, and the drive that I had it on died not long ago. Does anybody here happen to have a copy?

Member
Since: Apr 27, 2002


Jul 30, 2005 12:07 pm

triggering rules...i just figured out how to do it...

Member
Since: Apr 27, 2002


Jul 30, 2005 12:55 pm

heres a good flow to follow when trying to get the best sound possible...take your time with each step and do not move on to the next until it is done...

mic selection > mic placement > compression > EQ > as far as kick...i like to use a Multiband Compressor...(there is one found in Cubase)

my usual signal flow looks something like this...

1. Dynamics (fast attack, medium fast release, i usually start off with a 3:1 ratio and i mess with the threshold so that on every hit i get somewhere around 4dB's of gain reduction...) - this is for the PUNCH (you can also use a gate here, i prefer to use the gate FIRST and the compressor after the gate)

2. Equalization (first i use a Parametric EQ and make a cut between the 200Hz-500Hz range to get rid of the CHEAP CARDBOARD sound...this is common technique, but dont just copy and paste my numbers, try it for yourself - basically just try scooping some of the low-mids and mids out and see what sounds the best depending on your kick drum sound you want...next youll want to reinforce the bottom end if it isnt quite there, i just popped in the deftones cd and im gonna say you would wanna boost somewhere in the proximity of 60Hz to get the HEART STOPPING low end that you are looking for...but experiment...ive recorded different kick drums with different mics and ive found that "heart-stopping" frequency was different from time to time...sometimes ive found it at 56Hz, others around 63Hz...just remember to experiment...athen youll want to get that beater smack there sound in there...ive had the best of luck by boosting anywhere between 2.5kHz - 4 kHz...this will give it that slap/snap/percussive sound)

at this point it should be sounding great, but remember EQ should only be used to improve on an already AWESOME sound which is where your microphone selection and placement come into play...

now for the last step in the chain that i have found works wonders and learned about from a well respected hardcore producer whos albums im sure youve heard and can also appreciate for the stellar sonic quality...

MULTIBAND COMPRESSION...although this is quite difficult to explain...so ill leave this up to you to figure out...because trust me...you will, and once you do...its all over, you will own any kick drum you ever record...

anyone can sit here and copy down settings for equipment and get good results, but what it comes down to is...do you understand why each of these settings works for a particular instrument/situation? i gave you some decent kick drum compressor settings, but do you really understand how and why each one of settings is crucial in getting the sound you want? if not, research, study, read, practice, experiment...

in summation, here is a list of things i would consider reading either by googling them or searching this here fine site...

-Parametric EQ-
-Multiband Compression-
-Any other word you have read that dont you dont understand-

but dont just read what you find...comprehend it, let it sink it...even try it, put it to practical use...


that was rather length and long-winded but i hope it helped...


a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member
Since: Oct 09, 2002


Jul 30, 2005 12:58 pm

Quote:
The Deftones and most all other professional bands use at least a small amount or even a complete triggered drum sound.


Where did you hear that from? I would call that a huge exaggeration.

Member
Since: Apr 27, 2002


Jul 30, 2005 01:00 pm

its going to difficult to get the kind of snare drum sound you are going for though if you are using one mic for the snares and toms...

im going to assume that with 4 in/4 out card you are use
1. Kick
2. PG81 for overhead
3. SM-57 for snare?
4. SM-57 for toms?

Bohemian
Member
Since: May 04, 2003


Jul 30, 2005 01:27 pm

October 3 2002..
the guy is long gone I guess

Member
Since: Apr 27, 2002


Jul 30, 2005 01:38 pm

haha..ya know what? i didnt even look...

glad i wasted my time...haha

Hello!
Member
Since: Jan 12, 2004


Jul 31, 2005 05:39 am

Useful for me as I am gonny record my first ever kit next week using my new Audio Technica drum mics (KitPak)

www.audio-technica.com/cm...f672/index.html

So, not wasted my friend! Wish me luck - I think I'll need it!

Cheers

Coco

a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member
Since: Oct 09, 2002


Jul 31, 2005 01:10 pm

Haha! Seeing posts from Jamie Garrett should have tipped me off...

a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member
Since: Oct 09, 2002


Jul 31, 2005 01:16 pm

Wow, this thread started just a few days before I registered on this site...

Member
Since: Apr 27, 2002


Jul 31, 2005 06:10 pm

well coco if you need anymore help just feel free to shoot me a line...

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