Recording Bass and Distorted Guitar Question...
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Posted on May 02, 2004 08:18 am
riffgod
www.charlienaebeck.com
Member Since: Apr 10, 2004
Morning everyone,
Just was going to drop by the boards this morning and see if anyone out there had any good reccomendations for tips on getting a decent recording of bass (electric), and distorted guitar (Les Paul Studio run through effects board into Peavey Citation head coming out a 4x12 cab).
The verdict so far is that everyone says I would be best off hooking up with a large diaphram condenser to do the bass with instead of the direct box approach. I have been getting a lot of clipping and overheated signals from the XLR that I've been using out of the DB, but I have a spare cable that I will try when I get back to it. :) My concern is that the sound isn't nessecarily what I expected from a direct box. The sound is perfect coming from the cab, and I was doing XLR to Direct Box, then XLR to channel 2 on my board. I tried XLR directly from my cab into my board too and it just isn't working. You guys have any good mic techniques for bass cabs? I am running a Crate BX100 with a 15 inch in the cab.
My second mulling of the morning is how to achieve decent distortion recording. I have not had much previous experience in recording distorted guitar actually and it seems to be an EQ thing in my opinion where it is coming out terribly muddy on the recording. I am running 2 SM57's on the cab about 3inches out from the bottom left cone, and top right cone for a stereo effect. The guitarist is using a Les Paul Studio, through an effects board into a Peavey Citation head that runs into a 4x12 for all of you guitarists out there that might have any ideas. :) I think that the guitar player is doing one of those deals where he likes hearing his instrument really phat from the amp and doesn't understand that guitar takes up most of the mids and some highs and to let the bass and drums do their job basically. ;) Any suggestions for a sweet distortion sound though? We are sort of going for a Bob Dylan/311/Aerosmith type of vibe with the guitarist for the part that we're working on if that helps also. :)
Thanks much to all for any assistance in advance. peace
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MinkusMazBane of All ExistenceMember
Since: Mar 27, 2003
May 02, 2004 11:44 am cut the effects board when you are not using the effects (i would cut it out entirely) there is something very "thin" sounding about guitar tone after the initial signal has been converted to digital and back to analog.
to get great distorted guitar tone, you really have to listen as you put the mic(s) up. read jues' article on advanced guitar mic'ing:
www.homerecordingconnecti...tory&id=140
you need to train your ear to find the best placement for the mic. if you decide to use a second mic, you really really need to train your ear so that you end up making it constructive to the tone instead of destructive.
i use the two mic approach on bass cab as well, but i also record the direct bass. three tracks total for bass. works for me!
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
May 02, 2004 10:25 pm Man, I gotta say the DI thing has come a long way. I am putting together an album for a group and am using a Fishman Pro EQ Platinum on the bass and a POD line 6 on the guitar. A little work with PSP vintage warmer on the guitar and I am getting a fabulous sound. I wish I had a song complete so you could listen. Not quite there yet.
DrewMember
Since: Apr 21, 2004
May 03, 2004 02:13 pm Bob Dylan/311/Aerosmith? Um...
Hmm.
anyway, my money's on the problem's with the way he's set his amp. Scooped-out mids, cranked gain, bass and treble?
For rhythm work, you really don't want a super-saturated tone- enough gain to give some good chunk for palm muting and all that, but you really want a clear tone with good attack, rather than a super-saturated tone. I usually have the gain between 4 and 5 when recording rhythm tracks on my TSL, in the lead channel, and while it sounds heavy as all hell on disc, it's really not THAT distorted. A single track isn't terribly impressive on it's own, but double track it (not copy and paste, but do a seperate take) and suddenly the guitar comes alive. :)
These are the settings I was tracking with last night, that gave me a great heavy sound that still left enough room for bass and a lead gutiar track; Gain 4.5, Presence 8, bass 3.5, Mids 4, treble 3. Then, for leads, i just upped the gain to maybe 5.5, mids to 6, presence to 5, and kicked on my wah.
See if you can convince the gutiarist to record with a totally uneffected tone- it'll give you a LOT more flexibility down the road. Just tell him he'll be thanking you later. ;)
riffgodwww.charlienaebeck.comMember
Since: Apr 10, 2004
May 05, 2004 06:57 am Thanks much for the tips everyone.
Drew: I think you're right on man. I was talking with a friend who is an engineer also and we were discussing the whole theory of the fact that the recording is only going to be as good as the instrument and amp that it is coming out of, so in my opinion we have to tweak with the sound a bit more and see what comes out of it. lol
I actually picked up a guitar and messed with it myself the other day and was pretty happy with the rhythm distortion after I tried a few suggestions (we'll see with him playing of course) lol but will try the trick with the lead tonight probably and see how it goes. I was playing lead with the wah, but it was sounding a bit thin, so it either needs a harmony on the doubled part or just a phat sound in a diff. position on the wah. we'll see though I guess. haha
btw.. Thanks Minkus for the awesome article link. I tried the trick on the bass of the mic at a 45 degree angle into the cone so that the highs fly by more and got a very nice tone out of the cab finally with the bass player. :)
well, I am off, catch you all later. peace
DrewMember
Since: Apr 21, 2004
May 05, 2004 12:03 pm The thing you gotta watch for with a wah is, if you start using it all the time, you'll begin to sound like Kirk Hammett. The man needs to have his Wah surgically removed from his foot or something, lol.
If it's too "thin" to your ears, try the following fixes:
-a good reverb, with maybe a hint of delay (for no good reason, this always seems to fatten it up)
-a bit of room mic'ing.
less treble and more mids on the amp.Yeah, he loves his tone... but have him listen with his ear against the grill, and he'll change his mind REALLY quickly (this is crucial for setting up a good live sound if you're going mixed, too; screw what it sounds like in the arena/hall/whatever, listen to what it sounds like from the amp, from right out in front, and EQ for a good sound there. You'll sound muddy on stage, but amazing through the PA, and that's the one that counts. ;))
-unintuitively, less gain.
guitarists are such idiots. ;)
-D
