Boy, do I feel stupid
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Posted on Jul 23, 2002 07:44 am
still4given
Brother in Christ
Member Since: Jun 12, 2002
I can't believe it but this stuff is kicking my butt. I could really use some help here.
First off, I have a Delta 1010. The ins and outs all have a +4/-10 button on each input. I'm basically going directly from the direct outs and buss outs on my Mackie 1604VLZ, to the inputs on the 1010. Which setting should I be using? +4 or -10? I'm then feeding the signal from the 1010 back into the mixer so I can monitor it. Which setting should I be using for the output back to my mixer?
Then secondly, don't software companies provide manuals for their stuff anymore? This card came with a few software programs to use but not one piece of literature, save the manual for the card itself. It came with GigiStudio and Delta Logic. These are fully operating programs, (not shareware). Delta Logic has a PDF file of a manual but it is over 320 pages. My inkjet is quivering at the thought. Are programs becoming obsolete so quickly that the software companies are just not bothering with the manuals anymore?
I just keep running into road blocks everytime I try to so something. Are there any good video tutorials about home recording? It's just too tough for me to try and go through these tutorials that are included with the programs. I think I need to get a better grasp on the total picture. I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed. Does it show? :)
Thanks, Terry
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Jul 23, 2002 08:04 am OK, first, sit back, get a tall glass of cold water and put a damp rag on your head, OK...do you feel better now. OK, let's move on...
I read your post a couple of times and see a couple possible probs, but the one thing you never mentioned is what you are actually having problems with. Is it not recording? is it not playing back? Is it poor quality?
You said your instruments are going into your mixer, out of that into the sound card, back out of the sound card into the mixer and out to the monitor...correct? Let me ask you this, when your soundcard is running back into the mixer, how is it going to the monitor? Is it going out on it's own bus or is it rejoining the mix and not only going to your speakers but also back into the soundcard? Make absolutely sure you are routing it differently. I have made this mistake and so have many before me. If you sound card is going back to your mixer right to the speakers, you should probably just bypass the mixer and try using it for only incoming signals. Just send you sound card out straight to the amp/speakers.
No, bundled software rarely comes with any manuals, they do if you buy the whole program in the retail box. and some come with very large manuals.
Signal routing can be a real mind-screw, it's works just like analog though, you have to folow your signal through the gear, see if it is crossing anywhere...
Jul 23, 2002 10:26 am OK, let me see if I can type all of this right,
I think my routing is all right. The 1010 has 8 analog inputs. I'm using the direct outs from the first four channels on my Mackie into the first four channels of the 1010. I am then usings the direct outs from the four busses and going into the last four ins on the 1010. None of these channels or busses are patched to the main LR out on the Mackie. I then patch the 1 & 2 outs on the 1010 and go into the "tape in" on the Mackie. I did this to try and insure that I don't color the return by using a channel on the board. That goes to the main LR out on the board and to my power amp and on to the speakers. I'm not using a preamp before the power amp and that is why I went back into the Mackie. I'm basically hooking this thing up like I would an analog 8 track recorder. My question about this is mainly "what setting should I use for the ins on the 1010? +4 or -10?
As far as the actual recording goes, I'm having a fit trying to figure out how to get everything working. Right now I just want to do some analog "type" recording. You know, lay down a guitar track, then some vocals, maybe add a bass track, maybe some drums. The program want me to insert a track but no "insert" menu. It's driving me nuts. I keep trying to work through the tutorial but it seems that it mostly deals with MiDi stuff. I would like to learn about Midi someday but not being much of a keyboard player it is certinly not high on my list right now. Maybe I just need a better program for a newbee like myself. I never dreamed it was going to be this tough to get this working.
Any suggestions? I've also downloaded a trial version of N-tracks but it has so many features turned off on it that I can't seem to get much use out of it either.
Thanks, Terry
Jul 23, 2002 04:10 pm Well, I'm no expert, but I just bought a Delta 1010 and I'll share with you how I plan to hook it up once it comes in the mail. My board have a channel insert in each channel and I believe your mackie dous also. On mine this is a 1/4 stereo (trs) plug. It has output, input, and ground. This is so you can insert a device (effects unit, recording device, ect..) between the mic preamp in the mixer and the rest of the channel. So I am going to run the insert output to the input of my compressor. From the output of the compressor to one of the inputs on the delta 1010. Then run the corresponding output on the delta 1010 back to the insert input on the mixer. So your signal will go from the mic, into the input of the mixer, through the mic preamp in the mixer, then out of the insert output on the channe to the compressor, from the compressor into the delta 1010, then from the corresponding output on the Delta 1010 back to the insert input on the mixer channel, then through the channel EQ, AUX, and the rest of the channel. Hosa makes a four chanel snake with stereo 1/4 (TRS) ends on one end and dual mono 1/4 on the other for use with inserts. The delta 1010 also has stereo moniter outputs which can be run into two more channels on the mixer that are not being used for recording. Hope that helps. If anyone sees any holes in my logic, let me know. Like I said, I haven't tried this setup yet, but I will as soon as all my stuff arrives.
As for the +4 vs -10 I'm still a bit fuzzy myself. But the manual to my compressor says -10 for home recording and +4 for professional. But where is the line between pro and home????? I just bought about $3800 worth of Sennheisser mics. Am I a pro system now????? Who knows. Anyone else have any thoughts.
Send me your email address and I will email you a few diagrams that may help and something that may help you with your software problems. [email protected] (just remove the no spam from my address when you email. I do that to keep webcrawlers from getting my address for SPAM lists)
Jul 23, 2002 11:22 pm tripnek,
I believe the setup you've listed will work fine. On my Mackie, all 16 channels have inserts but the first 8 channels have direct outs as well. I have two dbx 266 compressors hooked into the inserts on the first 4 channels. Originally I planned to use the direct outs on all 8 channels and then feed the corresponding outs on the 1010 as you are planning and return them to the second bank of channels. (9- 16)
When I suggested that here, I was told that I probably wouldn't need to monitor each channel seperately and I agreed. I have elected to just return the 1 & 2 outs for now. I can listen to any or all of the tracks depending on which ones I enable.
I elected to feed the 1010 ins 5-8 with the outputs from the 4 busses on my Mackie so that I can use the aux send and returns in case I want to use some analog effects or additional EQ or something.
The only problem I see with what you are suggesting is that by feeding back into the same insert from the 1010 is that your fader on that channel is going to control the send volume but not the return volume, I think. also you will not be able to take advantage of your aux send and returns.
Blessings, Terry
Jul 24, 2002 11:11 am Actually on my mixer (Alesis studio 12R) the fader does not control the insert at all. The only thing that has any control on the insert output to the 1010 is the Gain/trim pot at the top of each channel. I believe all mixers with inserts are that way. So basically all I'm using in the mixer for recording is the Mic preamps on the channels. The returns from the Delta 1010 would then be processed through the rest of the channel, through the faders, and on to the mains in the mixer. The returns I suppose are not really needed since I have the stereo moniter outs on the 1010, but it gives me more flexibility in my monitering to add the extra outputs. For instance, alot of singers really want to hear the reverb and other effects when they sing so they can "FEEL IT" better. But I wouldn't want to record the reverb. So this set up will allow me to run reverb into the monitor/headphone with out recording it. It should also give me more control over monitor volume of the tracks being recorded -vs- the tracks already recorded and being played back. I have had problems with this using my junkblaster sound card. But, like I said, this is all theory at this point. I have yet to have the chance to test it's feesability. Hopefully in about a week I'll be able to give a more definate answer.
Jul 24, 2002 11:57 am FYI:
What you just described is the difference between pre and post inserts and aux send/returns.
Pre means it is before the fader, so the fader does not control the signal going out.
Post means that the send is after the fader, so the fader does control the volume going out.
I dunno if all insert are pre, but I think most are, it is something to ask when buying a mixer I guess...I have a hard time saying anything is ALWAYS this way or ALWAYS that way...we all know nothing is absolute :-)
Jul 24, 2002 03:30 pm im in concurence with db on that statement. however, one thing is absolut.. vokda. =P
seriously though routing and patching can be a serious pain. once i get things set up and working, i dont even bother touching the cables again.
Jul 24, 2002 04:08 pm tripnek,
You're right. I stand corrected. The inserts on my Mackie are pre fader. I just wasn't thinking. Like I said, I use the inserts on mine for compressors. I haven't recorded any vocals yet so I'm not really sure I will use the analog compressors but right now I think I will. Also, like I said, the Mackie has direct outs for the first 8 channels that are post fader so that works better for me. I can use the gain control to set the incoming feed so that the pre's are happy and then use the fader to fine tune the out to the 1010. I may change things around after I actually start recording. I'm still trying to figure out how use all this recording software right now.
Blessings, Terry
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jul 24, 2002 09:26 pm I will testify to the pain of patching. I am the owner of way to many patch bay's. But they do serve a purpose in my rig. I can reroute anything any time I want. It is mainly because of the synth's and SampleCell that I use the patch bay. When I am on a roll tweaking a new sound, I do not want to have to stop and try to reroute a signal through another processor, so I just yank a plug and move it, or add one, or whatever.
Jul 25, 2002 08:33 am Yea, I thought a bit about getting a couple of patch bays. That takes a lot of fore thought too. I may still do it but I've got so much else to learn right now that I really don't want to add one more thing into the mix just yet.
Blessings, Terry
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jul 25, 2002 11:14 pm True, you really have to have your rig set in stone and know what you want to do B4 you start creating a patch bay system.
Not to say they are not needed. I have had them since day one, and have alway's thanked my lucky star's for them. But learn your rig first, then you can start thinking about how you want it set up.
