Newbie Asking for Help: Mixing/Mastering (?) Death Metal Vocals
Home > Home Recording Forum > Mastering Techniques > Newbie Asking for Help: Mixing/Mastering (?) Death Metal Vocals
Posted on Sep 12, 2010 07:00 pm
shinder84
Member Since: Sep 12, 2010
Hello! I realize that this may not be the hottest topic out there, but I'm hoping that somebody can help me out.
I am an amateur death metal vocalist who enjoys recording at home. I have a Shure SM58 microphone and I use a SONY Lightsnake USB cable to record my microphone.
I own Adobe Audition as well as Sonar Cakewalk (well my best friend does and I'm over at his dorm constantly :P), and I have very little experience with mixing or mastering. In fact, I don't even know what the difference between those two things are, so, for all that I could know, this could very well belong in the mixing forum, haha! :P
Anyways, as a fun hobby I write songs in Guitar Pro and record lyrics/vocals for them, but they always come out sounding not so great because I don't believe that I mix/master them properly.
Here is a sample:
Anyways, I am wondering how anyone who has any experience with this would go about mixing the vocals. I am curious to know specific settings, such as which plug ins to use from what specific settings to use them at. If I'm supposed to EQ, what frequencies should I EQ and how much should I EQ them by? If I'm compressing, what should I put in?
Thanks, and hoping that somebody can help me out with this! :)
[ Back to Top ]
Sep 12, 2010 07:44 pm It's not that simple (and this is indeed about mixing, although I think most people browse through all the messages here so it'll probably be seen just fine).
"What it needs" is up to you. There specific settings are the ones you feel it needs. You need to learn your tools and listen and the what you need will make itself known.
Sep 12, 2010 07:52 pm MassiveMaster:
Thanks for the speedy reply. I guess that's a good point that makes a lot of sense. I do know that I want to sound higher and more "full". I don't know exactly how to describe it. When I listen to a lot of death metal tracks using my headphones the vocals on the track sound so overpowering, it just fills up the entirety of the track. You can still hear the music just as loudly, but the vocals do just that: they fill up all of your surroundings, it kind of feels like (No I do not do drugs hehe :P)...they are "full".
When I listen to my vocal tracks the vocals are always a good 9 or 10 Dbs louder than the background track (because I can't remove vocals from a track, so this is the only feasible way to make my voice more audible than the original vocalists' voice). But regardless of how loud the vocals are they always sound somewhat distant...and not like they're being used to their full potential. That could just be because I'm using a mic that's not really the best for recording or it could be my SONY Lightsnake, which is only a $20 USD cable, but I'd like to at least think that I can make it improve A SMALL AMOUNT at least with mixing.
Would you have any suggestions of where to start? If I could get a starting point, I could fool around from there and make my own mix. That would be a great help. Thanks once again!
J-botByte-MixerMember
Since: Dec 04, 2007
Sep 13, 2010 07:08 pm Hey man, welcome to the HRC.
I'd say, the first thing to do is learn the characteristics of the EQ spectrum. Record some stuff, play with the EQ, and get some hands-on experience with what parts of the spectrum affect the sounds in what way.
There's a very nice link to an interactive chart that is a great place to look up how things sound at different frequencies, as well as where different instrument fall in the spectrum. Once you get your head wrapped around those concepts, and how changing the frequency affects the sounds of various instruments, you'll be that much stronger and have a pretty good grasp on what your sound needs to get it to where you want it.
Here's the link: www.independentrecording....ain_display.htm
I like to think EQ and how instruments and other sounds behave when you adjust parts of the spectrum is a good starting on learning mixing.
Another good thing to know is instrument placement within the mix itself. I.E. left to right, front to back, top to bottom. When something sounds louder than the rest of the mix, and doesn't fit, we say it's sitting forward. There's several ways you can get it to fit in. Decrease the volume fader on the track would be the first start. You can also set it back by using a -little- bit of reverb.
The proximity of the vocalist to the mic during the recording/tracking will also affect how it sounds in the mix. The further away from the mic you are, the more the room will affect what the mic is hearing. Another thing you can try, is recording close to the mic, and doing another take further away, and then mix the two tracks to taste. That will also help to increase the "fullness" of the sound.
I try to visualize where everybody is sitting on the stage as if I was an audience member, and adjust the panning and fader settings to approximate those positions. (though I may or may not apply the same concept when working with electronica or video-game related music)
And now, the caveat:
Without good speakers/monitors, and a decent treated room, it is very difficult if not impossible to judge the accuracy of what you are hearing from the speakers. The room itself may cause the playback to sound boomy or bassy, or it may cause it to sound muddy or thin, depending on the shape/size/things of and in the room. So when you hear something boomy in a bad room, and you go to make the change, burn the track to disk, and listen to it in a good room, it will sound thin or tinny in the good room.
This is because the room has a major influence on how we perceive the sounds coming from the speakers. Each room is different, and will influence the sound differently. You can try to lessen the influence by listening with the speakers fairly close, and the volume turned down quite a bit, and that can help. You can also try headphones, but the problem with headphones is that they can create a false sense of space, and some will over-emphasize the low-end, and make it generally difficult to hear things accurately.
But yeah, a good starting point is to learn the different parts of the EQ spectrum, play with the sound, and see how changes to the EQ can affect the sound, and look at how panning and fader levels affect the perception of where the instrument sits within the mix.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Sep 14, 2010 05:51 am as far as eq-uing goes with vocals, its best not to go too mad with it.
When you change a voice too much with eq it really stands out.
Have a listen, and maybe roll of a little bass freq and add a little top end.
Have another listen, might need to scoop out a tad of muddiness at around 300hz, this is where the mud hangs out.
Go too far though, itll sound thin and not right.
The human ear can pick especially if a voice sounds wrong.
HippieRockstar Vatican AssassinMember
Since: Mar 20, 2009
Oct 19, 2010 12:50 pm Although I'm no professional recording engineer, I've been dabbling with mixing/mastering my own death metal band for over a year now. Here's what I have done and maybe you can apply some of this to your own recordings.
1. Record long phrases as broken-up, separate tracks. Because your breath tends to reduce the further out you sing, its best to break up your sentences and get full deep breaths while recording (i.e. more power). Then, use accent track for certain words as a third track but keep the dbs down on that so it doesn't sound like a 2nd singer. Pan them maybe only 6% from center for each track to give it some dynamics. While recording, you want to achieve about -4 to -3 dbs of input, so that may determine how close or far away you should be singing from the mic.
2. Use a compressor plugin setting the threshhold to achieve maybe 4dbs of reduction. BenVesco.com has some really good EQ and compression tips for vocals (as well as everything else too).
3. I'm not sure about using the SM57 for vocals but I guess if that's all you have, then use it. A condenser mic seems a better fit for vocals like an AT 2020 (a reasonable mic for under $100). Just make sure you're singing into it in an enclosed/dampened area. Use reverb plugins to get any kind of room ambiance after the fact. I have my own singer sing directly into a piece of egg mattress hangin on the wall (mic in front of it, obviously).
4. Regarding flatness of overall sound, it may just be how you have all your other instruments panned. If you're doing the guitar work too, make sure you create a second track and pan each track R/L. That will help create that ambient space you're looking for since the vocals are so close to center.
5. Once mixed into the overall song, your vocals should probably sit around the same db level as your guitars. So, if your guitars peak at lets say -10dbs in the mix, your vocals should sit around the same db level.
Again.. these are not de-facto; just some methods I've been using. My profile has a new song uploaded you can listen to for reference. With a set of headphones on, you can hear all 3 vocal tracks and how they're being used/panned/db levels/etc...
Quincysanhttp://www.unitedmusicians.infoContributor
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Oct 19, 2010 02:21 pm In my opinion:
You do not need distortion, overdrive, EQ's or any other non-human sounding processing equipment. The fullness I'm looking for will be achieved through extreme compression settings. I was a vocalist in 'screaming only'' type bands for 5 years and by far, compression is the ONLY thing I would use. I use a nearly instantaneous attack and a middle-of-the-road release...depending on your threshold. Don't be afraid to use ratios like 8:1, 5:1. I like these vocals compressed!
Use a dynamic microphone and eat it. By recording with your mouth up to the grill of the mic, you'll get something called the "proximity effect", which sounds "brutal" when compressed as described above. The 57 is a great screaming vocal mic, IME. I guess I disagree with Hippie about the LDC. Another benefit to using the 57; you don't need a dedicated noise free space. You can pretty much record in front of the computer if you'd like. My screaming style is not very plosive and I did most of my recordings with my teeth on the grill of a 57, if yours uses lots of air and you notice big overdriven pops and poofs, you should back off the mic a bit and turn up the gain.
Don't be afraid to overdub vocals. Some "screaming" styles sound thin without overdubs. Up to you whether yours is one or not. I don't overdub my screaming vocals, but most other vocalists in the genre I've played with do.
Also an important note:
Hippie has made some good metal recordings in my opinion...but we disagree on just about everything involved in this decision. Might be a good idea to try it both ways and see how your vocals sound. Just because settings work for me and the groups I grew up with doesn't mean they'll work for you or PBR Hippie guy, ha.
HippieRockstar Vatican AssassinMember
Since: Mar 20, 2009
Oct 19, 2010 03:04 pm Just realized we were both referring to an SM57, but the author said SM58. My bad...
Quincysanhttp://www.unitedmusicians.infoContributor
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Oct 19, 2010 03:09 pm Ah, good catch. IME, the 58 is CRAP for recording metal vocals. I'd trade it in for a 57 for sure. The 58 is much more sensitive to plosives
Oct 21, 2010 07:36 pm I agree with quincy san as far as the 58/57/plosive ect. BUT the 58 does have a tad more clarity in the high freq's.
To the original poster. Have you ever heard of A/bing.
while mixing, have song pulled up that sounds liek you want your song to sound.
ALso. mixing takes just as much dedication as playing an instrement. You should do two things. Expeiriment, and study wikipedia, or google. Learn exactly what your doing to your signal when you turn a knob. Have a very visual idea of what you signal looks like and how it changes when knobs are turned.
good luck
