A question about phase alignment
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Posted on Mar 11, 2009 10:32 am
Tadpui
I am not a crook's head
Member Since: Mar 14, 2003
So most of us know the troubles that phase cancellation can cause when micing in our home studios. The most common trouble I have is using 2 mics to capture my guitar amp.
Last I posted on this topic, I found out that there is no spot for 2 microphones where there is zero phase cancellation between them, only a spot where the effect is minimized for my particular setup. But even then, I never seem to find a spot that even sounds acceptable to me.
What I end up doing is tracking both mics without much regard as to their phase alignment. Then after they're recorded I zoom waaaaay in on the waveforms from the 2 mics and line them up perfectly, as if the signal had reached both mics at the exact same time. I'm usually happy with the results. And I know that if it sounds good, it is good. But I wanted to get opinions and techniques from everybody who uses multiple mics for whatever instrument (drums, guitar, whatever). Is there any obvious drawback to having 2 perfectly-aligned tracks? How in the world do the engineers of the world find a good mic position to have guitars that jump out instead of comb filter themselves to death?
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Mar 11, 2009 09:22 pm Honestly, I've only ever done that or just followed the 3:1 rule and it seemed to work really well.
Another way is to have a gopher put on some headphones in your tracking room and have you on the talk back mic listening through your monitor chain. Have him just move around the room with a mic until you find a sweet spot that you like.
Mar 11, 2009 10:46 pm Start with a bad-*** sound that works well with one mic. Guitar sounds don't 'jump out at you' because of two mics... Might be because they recorded an amazing sounding guitar twice. Might be because of the mic across the room. Might be many different things.
I used to mic up Marshall cabs with two mics (one inverted and around 60-70 degrees off-axis) all the time. Still, the positioning has to be right for the application.
You'll never have two "perfectly" aligned tracks... Not with two versions of the same source. There will always be some sort of phase cancellation. Stereo is the difference between left and right.
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Mar 11, 2009 11:05 pm I use 2 mics because I like the growl and bite from a close-up SM57 but the mid-range and brightness from my MXL 990 from a few feet away. And by "perfectly aligned", I mean that I match their waveforms up to where they're in sync and not just in phase. They're 2 different mics at different distances from the cabinet, so of course they're not identical.
Unfortunately I'm a lone wolf in my home studio so I don't have a lackee to help out. Maybe I need to start having kids to do that stuff for me :)
Mar 12, 2009 11:10 pm id check out guitar rig 3 if you can...it made recording guitar soooo much easier. you dont have to worry about phase alignments...its all done for you. I'm getting better quality recordings also.
but im not sure how it compares to miking correctly in a room with great acoustics.
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Mar 13, 2009 11:15 am I'm just not a fan of direct recording and modelling/emulation software (or hardware for that matter). Especially for the $350 or whatever the NI software costs. I could buy a new amp for that! Or hire a pro engineer for an hour to come set my **** up for me :)
I'm relatively happy with the results I'm getting, I was just wondering how experienced engineers find that magic spot for 2 mics to be in phase on a cab. I just wanted to know if there was a better way than manually aligning the tracks myself after they've been recorded.
I'm starting to think not. I'll just keep scooching the tracks myself until I hear otherwise.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 13, 2009 06:00 pm Tadpui, I'll jump in on this. Although I generally do either one or two, most times 2 mic's. I have gone with 4 and a few times even more at once. Those times were in a very good room with great mic's as well. That afforded the ability to do so, but at a cost of time to get it all working closely before hitting record.
I'm probably the biggest rule breaker here, but then experimenting is how you find something.
Sadly there is no magic spot or measurement for doing it right every time. I go through the same process as you except in rooms were I know which mic's work were, or within a few inches most times. I do the same thing as far as nudging track if needed. It is really the only other way to get it close to perfect.
But take into account that those little imperfection's are what give the sound its character as well.
One rule that I do try and follow if I'm going for more then one mic is that each one has a very distinct tonal quality to it.
My personal preference is using headphones with someone else moving the mic while the player is at it.
Sometimes depending on the room I will simply move around the room and listen. When I get a spot the sounds good I will set a room mic up there and then tweak it if need be.
