A question that comes down to milliseconds
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Posted on Jan 05, 2009 07:05 am
crux
Typo Szar
Member Since: Jul 04, 2002
I'm starting to get a hang of using things like compressors and reverbs after a lot of trial and error (over a period of years) but i still have some questions i cant seem to find the clear answers to.
first off, how long is a transient? ppl say its short.. but of course most sound equipment registers things in milliseconds, so how long would say a snare hit last. When i set my compressor and they say "slow attack to let the transient through" is that 5 ms? or 60 ms? 60 seems to work for me, or even as low as 20 but im not sure.
Also when i add reverb on drums, i push them back by setting the predelay to negative "something". wat is the common limit for this? ofcourse in my own experience if i go beyond -50 the sync starts to go off, but wat is a common setting for this?
any other information anyone feels is useful under this topic is welcome, not to complain or anything but there is alot of information i think ppl who "know" just take for granted, i admit to this as well. after a few years of watching meters rise and fall, when you say "too hot" u know at u mean, but that really means nothing to a total noob, so if there is any info that u feel is thrown around without specifics, much appreciated.
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Jan 05, 2009 10:15 am I see what your after crux, but I don't think that there is a common setting for either the comp or the reverb.
For the compressor, the attack time is very subjective to the person playing the snare. It comes down to the type of heads, depth of the snare, temperature, the works.
The best way to set a comp comes to this. Start the threshold around -10. When the signal reaches that point, it turns on. The ratio I usually start with 3:1. For the attack, I start with that all the way down. Meaning that as soon as the comp turns on, it's grabbing the signal. With the release set at about 12 O'clock. Now, it's just a matter of fine tuning the attack and release. By rolling the attack and release you are playing in ms. And this does effect EQ. But there is no magic formula that will tell you where to set it at.
A Fourier Transformer calculation will tell you what Frequency will be present at a given time. But, you have to know the time. Not an easy thing to figure out.
It's just best to play with the attack and release. I don't know if you are 100% aware of this or not. Attack tells the compressor when it goes on. (Depending on where the Threshold is set.) To wait until it gets to this ms time to start compressing. And the release tells it to hold that compression until "X" amount of time has past. There maybe even a hold knob as well. That is the amount of time it takes to come back to non-compression state after the release time has expired. It is similar to the depth time of a gate. A genital roll off.
For Reverb, 35 ms is where a lot of the factor predelays start at. It's not a bad starting point.
Jan 05, 2009 11:10 am Quote:
A genital roll off
I'd set that one for as long a delay time as possible.
Jan 05, 2009 11:12 am Opps! =] Darn spell check. Lets try Gentle instead. No killing of the Non Jews please.
Jan 05, 2009 11:24 am Oh, God I am not having the best morning here for spelling, or reading. More coffee please!
Yeah, no chopping of the groin either! That would be bad!
Hurt very long time!
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jan 05, 2009 09:05 pm It was totally worth reading this thread all the way through.
But now I have to wipe up the Cheez-it crumbles I spat out while laughing out loud.
Jan 05, 2009 09:08 pm That's why I didn't go back and edit anything. It's just to dam funny!
cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Jan 05, 2009 09:33 pm LOL...just...LOL
Jan 05, 2009 09:41 pm Well barring any spelling mistakes, I hope the information was of help.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jan 05, 2009 09:45 pm I'm sure it was.
cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Jan 05, 2009 09:46 pm Very much indeed, in terms of using the compressor through trial and error, i think years of fidgeting with knobs has helped me in that department. I just wanted to know if there were common settings so ur info was much appreciated. Never knew that the type of hit, snare, temp and all that affected a transient becoz i thought a transient seems like a clearly defined term. Also this Fourier calculation will help me to do some more research.
I wasn't looking for the "right" settings as i know many an aspiring SE may be in search of, i just wanted to see the kind of "defaults" that others have set in their heads in hopes it would create kind of a fly zone for future reference.
Jan 05, 2009 09:51 pm Well, if you can get a hold of any RTA program, that is a Fast Fourier Transformer (FFT). If you have Wavelabs, or Smaartlive or even Real RTA, these will give you a visual read out of the wave.
cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Jan 05, 2009 09:58 pm Muchos Gracias
Kaos62Kaos is only a form of insanityMember
Since: Feb 03, 2005
Jan 06, 2009 12:29 pm Quote:
i think years of fidgeting with knobs has helped me in that department
I'm sorry I just couldn't resist after Robs chomping of the groin
Jan 06, 2009 05:03 pm Quote:
i just wanted to see the kind of "defaults" that others have set in their heads
There are no presets -- Experiment with it using extreme settings, one knob at a time. Understand what they do, understand how it reacts to different sources.
Setting a compressor up isn't the same on something alone that it would be in a mix - When you're compressing something, you're generally reducing the dynamic range of an element because it doesn't fit the dynamic range of the mix.
You might establish a "default" for "this type" of sound when you want it to be "that type" of sound in the context of "this type" of mix.
If there's a "rule of thumb" - "Low" is "Slow." If you're compressing a signal that's heavy in the 50Hz department, you certainly wouldn't want compression that can react faster than 50Hz (20ms).
