a question for you guys.
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Posted on Feb 19, 2003 01:49 am
stupe
Member Since: Apr 03, 2002
hi guys. i was just wondering, whats the deal with PRO TOOLS? why is PRO TOOLS so great and what kind of advantage do they have over everything else? is it different than just normal audio recording?. is protools something that is a software and hardware combined? i'm just confused because people seemed so impressed when someone says i use PRO TOOLS and i have no idea what it is
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Feb 19, 2003 05:17 am The only thing ProTools has that others don't is bragging rights. People use it for two reasons:
1- To be fully compatible with big studios so they can bring project from shop to shop if need be.
2- So people are impressed when they say it.
I have worked with ProTools and it has nothing that all the others don't. And in their big professional installations, yes, they are hardware and software, and VERY expensive.
Is ProTools great software, yup, it sure is, but then, so is Nuendo, Cubase and others. ProTools has nothing that those others don't.
In my humble opinion.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Feb 19, 2003 12:08 pm Thank you Stupe! I am so glad this came out. I have been trying to get at this for a long time, obviously not very effectively. I too wondered what was so great about pro tools that it cost so much more! Right or wrong, I have come to the conclusion that I can do everything on Cubase that can be done on pro tools. I may have to use a mouse instead of a slider, and it may be more time consuming and a little more tegious (massive mispelling) but that is what a "home studio" is all about. Obviously I stand to be corrected having formed my own opinion, but it seems to be a good starting point.
Feb 19, 2003 01:22 pm Ah geez! Here we go again! Well, what I have been able to tell from lots of reading, talking to users, playing with various software and having a ProTools system myself is that there really is nothing much that you can do with ProTools that you can't do with many other programs and vice-versa. It is my opinion, however, that the Digidesign hardware is of higher quality and has more processing power than the now slightly less expensive alternatives. I, for one, get no satisfaction out of the "bragging rights" that people seem to think is a big motivator to having ProTools, but I guess there is a sect of folks out there with that attitude.
Basically, what it comes down to for me is this: I try to buy the very best I can afford in every situation. After a large amount of research, I found ProTools to be the best choice for me. That said, I have also come to the opinion that some of the other solutions out there are also very good. The cost differentials are relatively minor these days, so it really comes down to personal preference.
LokiCone PokerMember
Since: Apr 07, 2002
Feb 19, 2003 03:34 pm Cost differences really minor? I don't know, I'd rather be able to get a system set up for under 3000 than have to spend well over that for a system like a pro tools rig. That's just me though. I don't see the point of paying that amount of money for something I can do with my analog board, Cubase SX, and a decent pair of monitors. This is in no way meant to be an attack on anyone, just voicing my opinion
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Feb 19, 2003 04:56 pm And on goes the Pro-Tools vs. such and such debate. Having spent many year's on both sides of the fence, using a full bore Pro-Tools rig which cost $30.000.00 and could only use its native pluggin's. Using a liter Mac version, a liter windows version and even the full windows version. And also in those same years opting for a much less expensive option, not really considering I own full version's of all Stienberg, Sonic Foundry and CakeWalk/Sonar software, and the hardware to keep it all running at a professional level. I will say the automation console is great on the full PT rig. But I can now create all my own control's and run them from an outboard controller, just like in PT. And I can use one controller to run all the software, not just one proprietary program. And I can integrate all my outboard gear via midi and midi machine control right out of my DAW program's. So in essance I can do everything PT can and really more with the other program's. I have seen and built many Pro recording facility's and the major part of them all have a PT room yes, but they also run Sonar, Cubase and the like because it is much more user friendly and also more affordable if they plan on outfitting more then one room. So to answer your question Stupe, I would not opt for PT unless you are going to deal exclusivly with a studio that runs only PT.
Peace
Noize 2 U
Feb 19, 2003 08:08 pm And there you have it.
stupeMember
Since: Apr 03, 2002
Feb 20, 2003 01:22 am thanks guys, these replies have confirmed what pro tools means to me. Its kind of like people that buy motocycles, they think they are all cool and stuff and go zooming off on the green lights, and they walk in rooms with their helmets and leather jackets and nerdy clothes underneath. and they think they are so cool. but in reality, its just transportation.
Feb 20, 2003 12:53 pm I'm a little lost as to why you guys would still think that you can't get a ProTools rig for less than $3000. Although, I guess it may very well be a case of selective hearing being that ProTools is so poorly thought of around here. In many cases, a ProTools rig can be set up for LESS than some of the others.
Some examples:
Digidesign M-Box w/ ProTools: $449
Digidesign Digi 001 w/ ProTools: $799
Steinberg Cubase SX: $599
Delta 44: $229
Total: $828
Cakewalk Sonar XL: $399
Delta 44: $229
Total: $628
I'm not going to argue about the features, compatibility or plug-ins, but you guys have to at least stop using cost as a factor ProTools. I have no intention of becoming some kind of torch-bearer for Digidesign, but I feel it appropriate to at least make sure people are accurately informed on this subject. ProTools is NOT significantly more expensive than any of the other comparable solutions.
People need to make an informed choice and this is a good place to get information. Cost has been the primary reason I've heard from everyone around here to avoid ProTools and it is quite obvious that most of those preaching this reason are rather uninformed on the issue.
Noize2U makes some very valid arguments and his points are definitely to be taken as major considerations, but can't we at least agree that the cost factor is a non-issue?
Feb 20, 2003 01:18 pm Those ProTools packages are also limited version of ProTools that as I recall our last conversation, limits you to 24 tracks (or something like that).
Both other apps you mentioned are unlimited (or virtually unlimited anyway) For those of us that can use 24 tracks quite easily that proTools package isn't good enough.
How much is the full version of ProTools 6 (or whatever the newest version is)? And what are any hardware upgrades, if any, that are required to use it? Plus plugins, features and addons costs ARE part of the decision making process because it DOES contrinute the overall cost of ownership. And those places are precisely where ProTools becomes expensive. And a "feature" of unlimited tracks on Sonar and Cubase vs. 24 tracks on the bundled version of ProTools is a HUGE difference to many.
I am not torch-bearing for anyone, I personally think if ProTools works for you in that limited state, great use it, but it wouldn't for me...or many others. I do however agree people should be armed with the full knowledge of all choices to make a good decision.
Feb 20, 2003 01:38 pm Fair enough. I'm only making a points for the LE version of ProTools here. I'm well aware of the extremely high costs of ProTools TDM systems. But the TDM version is not a "Home Recording" solution anyway, so it seems out of the scope of our conversations here.
That being said, I'll end my defense of Digidesign here permanently.
LokiCone PokerMember
Since: Apr 07, 2002
Feb 20, 2003 03:32 pm blue- Don't take anything we say here personally, or start to hate something just because we obviously don't like it. It's all just personal preferance. None of this is meant to piss you, or anyone else off. As long as you remember that, cool. And you know what? If you dig pro tools and use it that's cool too, that way if anyone asks any any help on the subject you can help them. I know that I can't answer any real questions on how to do something in pro tools, as I've only used it about twice.
Feb 20, 2003 03:56 pm Certainly no offense taken here. I'm considering this a dead issue. Of course, I'll do whatever I can do to help anyone who might post a thread asking ProTools questions, but only if I can get to it before they get told to get rid of ProTools and buy something else!
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Feb 20, 2003 05:06 pm Like I said in my previous post. I know I have the price of a good start on a PT rig invested in my Software and gear. So I will not diss anyonw who opts to run a PT rig. In my case as dB stated, I do need many more then 24 track's. And I will not run a Mac in this house, so that does create a small problem for me.
The debate can go on for year's over which is better, but the point remain's that they are all good at what they do. And in my humble opinion, for the begginer and mid level user who doesn't want to invest a good chunk of change in their system, the obvious choice are the product's from Cubase and CakeWalk, along with the even lower priced app's. now available out there. They do come with a truckload of usable DSP processor's and their are a ton of second party pluggin's and and such available for free.
PT does come with some basic plug's but I know anything that is available for TDM which is PT's native DSP format are not cheap, and there are no freeware pluggin's out there that I have seen yet. Anyway, like I said, they all have their strong point's, and if I were recording audio only, I would probably head for a PT system.
Feb 20, 2003 05:33 pm blue, you can end the issue, but like Noize said, the issue at large will never end. Perosnally I have nothing against ProTools, and I actually like the fact that someone that uses it and likes it hangs out here...it's makes us a more well rounded community.
As a whole you are right, for the basic edition with LE like you mentioned, IS in fact a viable solution for a home studio in and of itself. But should someone invest in it, then grows and needs to expand is where the trouble is. For anyone looking to start a home studio and keep it a "home studio" and never has a need for more than 24 tracks (which is probably a lot fo people), it is a very viable option.
Feb 20, 2003 06:52 pm I'm sure you're right and it will never end. Although, what good debate ever does? I think we all need to get some new material! This has inspired me to start doing some serious research to see who else is having this debate and what they have to say. Might make for an interesting article.
Feb 20, 2003 07:48 pm Yes, it sure might make a good article...
ultimately it's just another Ford vs. Chevy, Gibson vs. Fender, blah, blah, blah. If one can make good music with it, and it does what the person needs, that is all that matters.
Everyone can dance around their own fire. :-)
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Feb 20, 2003 09:18 pm Have you been watching me in my backyard again?
LokiCone PokerMember
Since: Apr 07, 2002
Feb 20, 2003 09:41 pm Ya know, I've got an interesting story about dancing around fire... Can't go into it here though
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Feb 20, 2003 09:45 pm I figured you or Walt would pick up on that line. :-)
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Feb 20, 2003 10:46 pm Don't go there! I still have not gotton over that camping trip!
Well, I for one appreciate the candid debate. I know this makes me a common foe. Should be convienient! But just like with computers or anything else, I don't like to buy into a dead end if I can help it. I really like buying once and taking care of as much as possible. I'm at a point where upgrading may make sense also using Cube 5. But now I will hang out for a bit and see who is doing what. And that is the killer for me. It is impossible to sample all of the plug ins etc. ahead of time. That's where this forum is the Cats pooper! That's a good thing....really...I mean...
