Ok I need alot of help....
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Posted on Nov 11, 2007 07:07 pm
RandalMcFloyd
I wish I had a profile picture
Inactive Since: Nov 11, 2007
I'm looking for gear for recording and making music. I don't need help on the guitar and amp but I do need help.
First, I need a SINGLE piece of equipment for guitar that will handle all guitar modeling, amp modeling, and effects. I don't know what brand (Line 6, DigitTech, etc.) so I'm looking for some advice.
Second I need a SINGLE piece of equipment that will let me just plug in mics, amps, etc. and let me record them directly onto my computer. So in other words one place to plug everything in for computer recording.
Third, software. I will need some user friendly software for editing, mixing, etc. the music that I record. I want it to be easy to learn to use. Again, I don't know what brand (CakeWalk, Pro Tracks, GearBox, etc.).
Fourth, more software. I need some software that is also easy to use for creating my music. I want it to have lots of instruments to choose from and the ability to put them together as music. I'm not sure what brands (for example Reason) so I'm asking for some opinions, pros/cons, and advice.
I have more questions but I think this is a good place to start. Thanks.
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Nov 11, 2007 07:43 pm OK, I and many others hear, will recommend Toneport from Line 6.
Persoanlly I would avoid the UX1 and then choose between the UX2 or KB37 (the latter if you need a keyboard).
Toneport comes with Gearbox which handles all the amp, bass, vocal, effects and everything.
For software to record with I would recommend starting out with Kristal or Reaper. Kristal is 100% free and covers enough ground to get you started, many people keep using it or might progress to a commercial product.
If you want to go commercial straight away then try the demo's most have them. Sonar is very popular, Logic or Garageband on the Mac, I love Acid, Ableton comes with the Toneport (4 track only) but has a slightly different approach.
I don't really completely understand question 4 so I'll leave that one alone :)
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Nov 11, 2007 08:51 pm Well welcome to HRC first off.
Tony has you covered pretty well and I'll second the Line 6 Toneport UX-2 for covering all your input needs. And it will do the amp modeling for guitar, bass and some killer high end pre amp models for your mic's. I own a fully loaded POD xt and have access to some killer amps if needed. I find myself using the UX-2 most often though just for the ability it has with Gearbox at the controls. I have several other higher end audio interface but end up using the UX-2 just for the sake of it being quick and easy.
On your fourth question. Well you might be able to kill several birds with one stone here. You might want to have a look at Sonar 7 PE. It comes loaded with all the pluggins you would need to get to a finished product on CD. It also comes with some killer software synths to get the rest of the instruments you are talking about into your mix.
LokiCone PokerMember
Since: Apr 07, 2002
Nov 12, 2007 05:16 am yeah, noize and tony pretty much have it spot on. I don't use cakewalk, but most of the bigger name recording/mixing programs come with a good supply of plugins, and theres lots more out there for free, with varying quality.
RandalMcFloydI wish I had a profile pictureInactive
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Nov 12, 2007 03:05 pm I have looked into Line 6 products and it just got my confused. I realize the TonePort is used for recording but what is the difference between it and the Line 6 PODs?
I understand that many things like TonePort or DigiTech let you also record with them but I honestly want a seperate piece that will let me plug those into it. So for guitar I would have it hooked up to an amp and the effects for practicing but then just plug all of that into a gizmo hooked up to my computer. I want it like this because after getting a guitar multi-effects processor I am also planning on buying one for vocals. And if I only used the effects processors for recording I would need to have two seperate pieces hooked up to my computer. But with a seperate piece of equipment (it doesn't need to have effects or anything because I'll have something else doing that) that lets me plug in pretty much anything and record to my computer I wouldn't need to have two pieces of equipment hooked up to my computer. Maybe that's what TonePort does, I don't know. Wow I hope that made sense.
Also, for effects how do DigiTech products do?
Ok so as far as software goes one does all? I won't need seperate ones for editing, mixing, and adding after effects?
For Tony, my fourth question was a little poorly written I know. What I meant was a software with digital instruments that I could use to make music just on my computer.
Thanks.
Nov 12, 2007 03:05 pm mainly, the POD's can be used without a PC...
RandalMcFloydI wish I had a profile pictureInactive
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Nov 12, 2007 03:14 pm Deleted By RandalMcFloyd
RandalMcFloydI wish I had a profile pictureInactive
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Nov 12, 2007 03:17 pm So a POD can be used for live performance as well as recording?
Can you use the two together?
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Nov 12, 2007 05:13 pm Sure can, pod can be used for live use. I used to play with a band that the git player would use one some of the time. Had the little magic bean on top of his amp, and would change stuff up between songs.
Not the smoothest way of working, but it worked none the less.
Quote:
Wow I hope that made sense. I couldn't follow that, and I tried several times =/.
The toneport performs 'soundcard' duty, thereby converting your analog signal (sine wave) over to digital (bits and bytes). This conversion is necessary to get the sound into the computer, in digital stream. Also, you need to de-convert the signal back to analog, so you can here what you've played.
The toneport does this for you. Plus, the toneport has a bunch of modelling software, which really opens up the possibilities of what you can do with it.
You can also plug your amps and microphones (for vocals) into the toneport, so you would need only one piece of hardware, to do your guitar / vocal recording.
You also can use it live, kind of like a pod, but you would need the computer along with you, and most people don't want to depend on a PC for gigging, nor like bringing along a PC to a gig. (laptop included)
If you're planning on making music inside the PC (not just recording it, guitar, bass, mic) then the keyboard model may be just the ticket. It's the UX2 but with a keyboard attached. You can play the keyboard, but have the PC record your playing, and put a different sound to it. Very flexible.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Nov 12, 2007 06:26 pm Ya, Sonar can do it all. Recording, mixing, effects, software synthesizer's and the whole nine yards. All in one convenient piece of software.
As for the POD or UX-2. Well they are actually both, amp and pre amp simulator's and audio interface.
One question I would ask though is if your amp has a direct out? If so have you tried recording with it yet through the direct out? There is a huge difference in the sound you will get that way as opposed to using and amp modeler such as the POD or Toneport. Those units are made to make up for the lack or certain things that are missing in most amps direct outputs. The only thing that is hard to replicate using a modeler is the push pull you get with a tube amp. If your using a solid state amp then the Line 6 gear will be a bit of an improved recording sound if going direct.
Nov 13, 2007 01:38 am Also, if you record from your amp, how will you get the sound into your PC ? You can't just go into the line in, you need a decent recording interface or card. The Toneport is one of those.
The Toneports do require a PC but have advantages over the POD's, most significantly is the XLR and line inputs + the fact that you can use two different inputs at once.
It's late but I must admit to being quite confused by what you are looking for.
RandalMcFloydI wish I had a profile pictureInactive
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Nov 13, 2007 01:55 pm Ok Ok, I'm having a hard time explaining what I'm really looking for because I'm a newbie at this. I'm going to try to explain it better. But first, when connecting an amp, guitar, and effects (like DigiTech) what is connected to what? Does the guitar connected to the effects which is connected to the amp or what?
Thanks and sorry for the confusing questions.
Nov 13, 2007 02:23 pm I can't answer that question but tell us this.
How will get you sound from your amp or anything external, to the PC. What recording interface or sound card are you planning to use.
RandalMcFloydI wish I had a profile pictureInactive
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Nov 13, 2007 02:29 pm That's part of the problem. How am I going to do that? I'm not yet. Honestly I don't even have an amp yet, I only have my Taylor acoustic guitar and my baritone saxophone. I'm hoping for an Ibanez hollow body electric for Christmas or my birthday though. As far as an amp to go with that I don't know if I'll go with a tube amp or what; I still need to shop around.
Nov 13, 2007 02:44 pm So that's kind of my point. With a great amp and a great mic etc. you're still going to need a recording interface so perhaps that needs to come first.
At a high level there are 3 realistic options
1) Buy a recording soundcard
2) Buy a recording interface such as Toneport (with effects etc)
3) Buy a recording interface such as a mixer or Inspire that does not have effects.
There are other options but I would discount them.
For my money the Toneport gives you the best of all worlds. It gives you the modeling etc, but lets you record direct if you want to, you can even run out of your amp, into the toneport, then use the Toneport modeled cabinets on their own.
RandalMcFloydI wish I had a profile pictureInactive
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Nov 13, 2007 03:01 pm THANK YOU!!!
You just solved part of my problem for me! But...
When you say soundcard do you mean the things that are inside computers? If so are the recording ones external from the computer?
If I was recording with an interface without effects and I wanted effects would I use something like the POD or DigiTech to get the effects? Also, is a recording interface without effects going to get better sound? More money?
Also, does TonePort come with GearBox? Is GearBox recording software?
Nov 13, 2007 03:10 pm OK.
Soundcards are the things that go inside the computer. Items such as Toneport work as soundcards outside the computer. Personally I would not make the effort for an internal soundcard and stick with something outside.
If you use the InSpire or a mixer then yes you could put the digitech in front of it and record the output of the digitech through the InSpire, you can also do this with the Toneport which does allow you to turn all the effects off.
The recording interface without effects will not get better sound, it's all in the product. Inspire and Toneport I have owned and both are good. They are around the same price but there are cheaper interface only products and more expensive one's.
The Toneport does come with Gearbox. Gearbox is what does all the effects and amp modeling. Without Gearbox then the Toneport is just like the InSpire but Gearbox is free with the Toneport. It is NOT recording software. Toneport comes with the free "Ableton Live" but it's a crippled 4 tracks only version.
RandalMcFloydI wish I had a profile pictureInactive
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Nov 13, 2007 03:30 pm So TonePort will work with guitar, vocals, saxophone, anything?
So GearBox is ONLY for effects? It does no editing?
How does TonePort connect to a computer? USB? FireWire?
Ok...Are DigiTech RPs and Line 6's PODs the same thing? If so which is better?
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Nov 13, 2007 03:41 pm Quote:
So TonePort will work with guitar, vocals, saxophone, anything?
You'll need a mic as well but yes.
Quote:
So GearBox is ONLY for effects? It does no editing?
Correct
Quote:
How does TonePort connect to a computer? USB? FireWire?
USB
Quote:
Ok...Are DigiTech RPs and Line 6's PODs the same thing? If so which is better?
Essentially the same but I prefer the POD's. I own both
RandalMcFloydI wish I had a profile pictureInactive
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Nov 13, 2007 03:45 pm I won't need a mic for guitar or keyboard though right?
Nov 13, 2007 04:11 pm No mic is needed for electric guitar or keyboard though you have the option of mic'ing an amp.
With Toneport and Gearbox you don't need a POD or Digitech unless you want to use the thing away from the PC.
FYI the new POD X3 has an XLR input for mics and a 1/4 inch for guitars etc. This is another option, acts as a recording interface also.
RandalMcFloydI wish I had a profile pictureInactive
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Nov 13, 2007 05:36 pm Does the POD X3 have as good of sound?
Any disadvantages associated with it?
Nov 13, 2007 05:44 pm POD X3 is the new POD. Users claim it has better sound.
I don't have one but compared to the Toneport there are a couple of pro's and con's
For the X3
* Can process two amps at once (Toneport can do this if you have a direct input box)
* Works without PC
* Improved routing for effects etc.
For the Toneport
* Significantly cheaper
* 2 XLR inputs (1 on the X3)
* Line Inputs (not sure if they are on the X3 or not)
* Been around longer, not everything is working on the X3 yet.
There's probably more differences but nothing major.
Why are you resistant to the Toneport ???
RandalMcFloydI wish I had a profile pictureInactive
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Nov 13, 2007 05:48 pm I'm not. It might seem like that but I'm really just resistant to everything. Just trying to get all the pros and cons of everything and every option layed out in front of me.
Nov 13, 2007 05:52 pm Well keep asking, I have no problem to keep answering :)
I am a Line 6 fan, but Zoom, Digitech, Boss and others all make good products as well. To me the Toneport is just far and away the best value for money home recording product there is.
RandalMcFloydI wish I had a profile pictureInactive
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Nov 13, 2007 06:14 pm Is there any difference between the POD X3 Bean and the POD X3 Live besides the shape and the pedals?
And can you hook up pedals to the POD X3 Bean?
Nov 13, 2007 08:36 pm X3 Live has a Variax connector for Variax guitars, pedals, it is significantly sturdier. Live can be controlled by MIDI for patch changes etc. Live has XLR output, programmable effects loop, CD input.
Mainly it's all in the inputs and outputs. You can connect pedals to an X3 but not in the middle of the sound flow, it's all pre.
Tim NUh, at least one more time . . .Member
Since: Feb 07, 2007
Nov 13, 2007 09:33 pm I'm glad I ran across this post, because I bothered to check the specs on the cheapest Toneport, and I will be getting one--I was going to recommend the E-mu 0404 PCI ($99.00), and in fact, I still will. The Toneport can go in as a USB device, while the 0404 can
take its customary route in--unbalanced lines, through the converters on the card. RM, get the Toneport, and then add a regular old soundcard like the 0404 to your computer (I'm assuming a desktop). The cards are relatively easy to install (though a USB line is truly a no-brainer), and then you have a couple of options as far as sending in the signals to the computer.
Its really becoming academic concerning the sound quality of the amp modelers--I use a Boss 532 and a Zoom G1 for all recording. I'm sure the Toneport sounds very good indeed, so don't even worry about what's what here. Get the best mic(s) you can afford and try out some of the software
recommended above (I use the criminally underrated Magix Audio Studio v. 11, $79.00, the underfed baby sister of the mighty Samplitude, which cost almost ten times as much; I'm saving up for that). I've tried the free Kristal; definitely worth a look-see. I believe a newer version of that free software has come out, with improvements. Oh, and to get a hardware feel going, buy a small mixer and hook the thing up to everything else. That way you can experiment with levels, faders, EQ, etc both inside and outside of the computer, and come to some kind of understanding (hopefully) of how these things work together.
I probably muddied the waters a bit here, but maybe it will cause some more good questions to crop up . . . .
Nov 13, 2007 09:58 pm Tim, what do you mean by "the cheapest Toneport" I would avoid the Toneport GX which is the cheapest, it only has 1/4 inch input.
The UX1 is good but the small price step up to the UX2 gets you a lot more.
RandalMcFloydI wish I had a profile pictureInactive
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Nov 14, 2007 06:46 pm Wait, I thought TonePorts had external soundcards built in? Why would I need another?
What do you guys think of the TonePort KB37? I was thinking about getting a keyboard and that kind of kills two birds with one stone. Any major differences or problems?
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Nov 14, 2007 06:56 pm That was mentioned above as an option.
And yes, it is a killer bit of kit. It is essentially a UX-2 only with the addition of a USB keyboard. It is just the thing to fit the bill for someone who isn't a full time keyboard player, but needs the best of both worlds including keys and the audio interface portion as well as all those tasty models.
RandalMcFloydI wish I had a profile pictureInactive
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Nov 14, 2007 07:02 pm Is the keyboard a quality keyboard?
It will let me control synths on the computer to right?
Any cons about it?
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Nov 14, 2007 07:33 pm Yep, it will let you control synths on the computer. That is exactly what it was built to do, aside from being an audio interface and having killer amp models and such. Have a look at the review here.
www.homerecordingconnecti...ory&id=1134
RandalMcFloydI wish I had a profile pictureInactive
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Nov 14, 2007 09:20 pm How do you toggle between using the effects included and having them off completely?
Also just double checking again...I could record saxophone through a mic with TonePort and get good sound?
Nov 14, 2007 09:56 pm There's a button on the Gearbox software to turn of all effects and modeling.
Toneport will not get you a good sax sound alone, you need a good mic and a good idea of how to record it, but it certainly keeps it easy.
KB37 is only a small keyboard, not full size, 37 keys I think. KB37 also does not have MIDI in so if you want any other MIDI you'll have to buy something else. But KB37 does allow you to use the knobs on the unit to control Gearbox which is cool.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Nov 14, 2007 10:01 pm You simply turn them off, its that simple.
And yes, you can and I have recorded a sax through the Toneport. You can record anything you can get a mic in front off. Or anything you can plug a line signal out of.
RandalMcFloydI wish I had a profile pictureInactive
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Nov 14, 2007 10:09 pm Will the sax sound good just like that or should I use anything to make it sound better?
Nov 14, 2007 10:45 pm You're ignoring me now.
You need a decent mic to get a good sax sound, Toneport alone will not do it.
Once you have a decent mic (not expensive just good enough) then the Toneport is all you need.
Keith WarrenMans reach exceeds his graspMember
Since: Oct 23, 2007
Nov 14, 2007 11:29 pm A good mic or a budget mic (50$-200$) with a tube pre-amp.
Nov 15, 2007 09:53 am You don't need a tube preamp with a Toneport (it won't hurt but it's not required). A decent $100-$200 mic would be fine, but then I am a believer in discount gear for the home recorder.
Keith WarrenMans reach exceeds his graspMember
Since: Oct 23, 2007
Nov 15, 2007 04:37 pm I just like the warmth of the tube :) I do believe that some lower level mics can sound a little more expensive with a good pre-amp though. (ie MXL 990)
Nov 15, 2007 04:40 pm Next describe "warmth" it's my least favorite musical term :) Mainly because everyone applies their own interpretation of what it means.
Tim NUh, at least one more time . . .Member
Since: Feb 07, 2007
Nov 15, 2007 04:49 pm Yeah, I didn't mean that one-input Toneport, but rather the one that is one step up from that. By the way, check out this site for sound card info, RM. Very informative!
www.tweakheadz.com/soundc...home_studio.htm
RandalMcFloydI wish I had a profile pictureInactive
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Nov 15, 2007 04:59 pm Ok Ok Ok...
I see all that all the places to plug things in are on the back of the TonePort KB37. Is that going to be inconvienient?
Nov 15, 2007 05:02 pm Come on Randal, how in the world can we answer that question. If you put the thing up against the wall then yes it will be a problem, otherwise no :)
RandalMcFloydI wish I had a profile pictureInactive
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Nov 15, 2007 05:08 pm I asked it so that anyone who has used it would give an opinion. Obviously if it's up against a wall that would be a problem but I wanted to hear from someone who has used it before...
Nov 15, 2007 05:08 pm If you put it on the ceiling, it would be difficult to reach anything... unless you're abnormally tall.
Then it might be a great way to keep the cables off the floor and eliminate trip hazards.
RandalMcFloydI wish I had a profile pictureInactive
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Nov 15, 2007 05:12 pm You like sarcasm as much as me.
Nov 15, 2007 05:13 pm but in all reality, most interfaces have a mix of inputs/outputs on front or back. You gotta decide what you want and work with it, basically.
The really high-dollar interfaces typically have them all in the back because they assume you're going to connect stuff (say to a large mixer) and leave it.
Nov 15, 2007 05:15 pm but if you really don't like the setup, but really want the interface, you can always rearrange stuff (e.g. if all the inputs/outputs are in the back, make extensions to a separate front facing panel or something).
RandalMcFloydI wish I had a profile pictureInactive
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Nov 15, 2007 05:16 pm Yes and would that be expensive?
Nov 15, 2007 05:21 pm Might be then again it might not.
Having connections in the back is not inconvenient at all, suggestion, just leave your cables connected.
Nov 15, 2007 05:22 pm Probably not worth the cost of just moving your interface to a position where it's more accessible.
If you want to build your own cables, look here:
www.homerecordingconnecti...story&id=26
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Nov 15, 2007 05:55 pm The point on not needing a good pre amp for the mic is that the UX-2 or UX-1 already has a slew of mic pre amp models that are absolutely killer. And they work sweet. I have not had to go out to use another studio for that purpose which I used to do. As they have some very high end mic pre's. The Toneport has them in it already and as stated they are killer.
RandalMcFloydI wish I had a profile pictureInactive
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Nov 16, 2007 09:09 pm Thanks for the help everyone. I'm sure I'll come back here when I have more questions.
