external sound card issue...help please!
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Posted on Mar 09, 2006 11:28 pm
mark7051
Member Since: Mar 09, 2006
Ok....
Turns out my onboard soundcard doesn't support asio, or a whole lot of much else either. Have downloaded "asio4all" but this seems like a band-aid? There are no PCI slots left inside my desktop tower so is there is a genuine EXTERNAL SOUND CARD that can be recommended that will enable me to use it and get decent quality in music creation (multitracking etc) and playback, without a million and one unepxected issues coming up. I have seen external soundcards, but they didn't have asio.
I have recently acquired FL studio, and am looking to incorporate a couple of decent soft synths. Basically, I just want to make sure that I can create music, as it should be done, with MIDI keyboard and appropriate interfaces etc. At present, in these programs, nothing appears as listed in the audio in and out options fields, and I keep getting warning messages saying I can't listen to anything. Can anyone advise me on the way to proceed from here?
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Mar 10, 2006 07:05 am There are loads of decent external sound card, Mackie makes one called the Spike, M-Audio has a few www.homerecordingconnecti...php?man=M-Audio there are simply loads, but too many to get into here without knowing at least the basic of how many inputs and outputs you need and such things.
Mar 10, 2006 12:31 pm The better quality and more flexible the better I think, for future expansion purposes. I am prepeared to pay for something decent, but not totally crazy megabucks of course. I am quite confused as to whether a lot of things calling themselves "interfaces" can actually function as a sound card. As I say, the principal problem is that the onboard sound capability is not very good, and there are no accessible pci slots left.
Mar 10, 2006 12:34 pm Yes, whether internal or external, they perform the same tasks...they bring sound into the computer and push sound back out...some have MIDI ports, digital I/O, etc...they all will have different features to fit different needs, but their purpose is the same.
Onboards are never good, they are not meant for the hi-perf studios need, just for gaming and mp3 playback...
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Mar 10, 2006 04:58 pm I was just looking through a music mag, and saw this:
www.yamahasynth.com/products/mw/
which looked quite nifty. I already have a solution for usb, but would certainly look into this for small system solution.
it has mixer, and usb sound interface built into one.
Quite nifty for the prices they're getting.
Mar 11, 2006 02:16 am Hi,. Thank you for the replies. Ok,I still have a basic confusion here. When it comes to an external "box", how do I know when an "audio interface" is also something that is going to function as an "external audio card"? Ideally, I would want both in one unit. I was looking at something, for instance, called the Emagic EMI usb, but I am not sure if it fits the bill or not. PJK's yamaha looks nice, but it looks like a mixing desk to me. When does an "audio interface" also take on (and override) the function of an onboard audio card? Because that's the situation I'm in. Last thing I want is to have nice keyboard etc and not be able to use it!
Mar 13, 2006 11:20 am I have one more question about this. If my computer itself has no specific midi inputs (it has some USB and a couple of firewire) will this hamper me in the choice of one of these external interface-audio card-controller units, and is there anything I should avoid in particular?
I am using it would have to communicate all its sound information to the comp via usb or whatever and not dedicated midi leads, or such??
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Mar 13, 2006 12:47 pm hey mark, that yama board is the sound interface, as well as a mixing desk. it incorporates the two together.
There's some discussion as to the ability to send data through USB fast enough, but for two input signals, I don't think it'd be a problem. I've done so with my tascam US122 to my laptop without problem.
The line 6 stuff mentioned above certainly is a dandy option, having lots of your necessary inputs/outputs, plus modelling technology for makeing your stuff sound better and/or different.
On a midi side, I don't think either has the midi capability (correct me if I'm wrong).
On a addition to this midi item, my tascam US122 has 2 midi jacks, plus the mic inputs, (xlr + phantom powered), line/guitar inputs.
It can act completely as my sound card, playing back all my windows type sounds (games, winamp, media player, etc) as well as my recording and playback interface for my recording software. Also, when it's not plugged in, my onboard sound (laptop) functions quite normally, though it doesn't play back my 24bit recordings (understandably).
The US122 doesn't have spdif, though i don't miss it.
There's quite a few external devices out there that will fit this bill, but keep mind of the different options, as they all seem to have different strengths.
Quote:
I am using it would have to communicate all its sound information to the comp via usb or whatever and not dedicated midi leads, or such??
Yes, the midi data would travel through the USB cable, into the computer. It may be a little slower that a dedicated PCI interface, but you're out of PCI slots, so there you go =).
Mar 13, 2006 04:16 pm "There are no PCI slots left inside my desktop tower" --mark7051
Is it possible you could reduce those cards (maybe a newer multi-function card could replace two or three single-purpose cards), thus enabling you to use a PCI solution... I'm in the same boat, all PCI slots are full right now and I'd like to add an ethernet port. Soon I'll be looking for an Ethernet/Modem combo PCI, there's gotta be one out there. Or I'll do a mainboard replacement and get the LAN stuff already on it...
P.S. When asking questions like you have here, it would be really helpful if we knew what is your system? Who made it? Operating System, memory, CPU, drives (IDE, SATA,SCSI, etc), speed, other devices... Special software you're using? 3D, animation, CAD? Special needs...
Fill out your profile...
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 13, 2006 08:45 pm OK, so mark let me ask this as well.
Do you also need a midi interface, or do you allready have that covered?
Mar 14, 2006 12:44 pm Hi.
No, I'm just trying to set things up right now and figure out what exactly it is I need, as the last time I had heavy time for music there *were* no software options :)
I have a midi keyboard (M-audio) on order, which I understand to be a "midi controller". This, and anything else, is going to have to link to my computer, as it stands at the moment, either via USB or a firewire socket, as this is what is available.
In addition therefore I have to choose some good external unit or other which takes the place of an internal sound card, its connection, and ALL that it entails, unless I have the system canibalised, which makes me nervous.
System is pentium 4, graphics card is Radeon x850 xt. In fact here's a brief run down of my system (hope there's no hackers here!)
What I want to be able to do is comose and record tracks, both freeform and loop style, froma keyboard-like object sitting on my desk, control any devices in the softs such as a vocoder or soft synth etc either by the midi keyboard (bearing in mind that I have no midi inputs on my PC0 or via external microphone (at present I can't get my headset microphone to work in fl studio at all, and am totally puzzled as to why). That's about it, the whole thing, in a nuthshell! It's just, pretty confusing out there...
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Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 14, 2006 10:27 pm Looks like the PC is going to work for you as is. The M-Audio keyboard is probably using USB for its midi port so you should be OK there. I guess all you will need then is the audio interface.
I guess if your lookin to get vocals and guitars into the tracks the Line 6 UX-2 might be just the thing then. I would surely look around to see if anything else might work. But honestly I think you might get the most for what you need right out of the one unit.
Mar 15, 2006 04:06 pm Ok, I seem to have issues (sigh).
I just obtained M-Audio Oxygen 61 midi keyboard controller and am trying to set it up for use wit FL (amont other things).
Have follwed the cd installation instructions for the appropriate driver, turned on fl studio, made sure I checked "allow midi remote control", and set for generic controller in the drp down LIST...BUT....still nothing appears in the "in" lists (on any program) referring to an external midi device. The quick start booklet (of the keyboard) assures me all I need to do is install the cd and connect to a USB port, and these I have done. But I am just getting ***stony silence***!!
Any help in getting this sorted out GREATLY appreciated!
Mar 15, 2006 04:08 pm My first suggestion is to go to www.m-audio.com and download the most recent driver, uninstall the CD-provided driver and try again.
Mar 15, 2006 05:05 pm Hi dB. Done that. No change alas.
Mar 15, 2006 08:47 pm I've read the thread... I don't have USB, so I can't really help much. But at this point, you might have to start from the very beginning and make sure each component is working, from the earliest point to the end. Leave nothing questionable. Test each component, check all the drivers through the chain and find the place where it's failing. You might have to disable some things to be sure where failures are actually ocurring. Don't assume anything is working properly...
That's all I have to say about that...
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 15, 2006 09:37 pm mark, in Fruity you can select to allow midi remote control and that starts the ball rolling but it does not choose the correct midi input port for you. And using ghe generic midi port wont do it either. You will need to go into you options or preferances and select the M-Audio USB midi drivers. Then you will be able to choose the M-Audio midi port in your track views. I am not real familier with the inner workings of the newer version of fruity, but that was the way it was in older versions.
Mar 16, 2006 11:13 pm Many thanks for the assistances. I finally resolved at least that issue!...it was a driver that microsoft needed to dl in addition to the driver from M-Audio. After I managed to download that, I could use the keyboard in FL and record with it.
Buuuuutttt....disconcertingly any attempts to use the vocoder in FL, or, generally, to get vocal in through a microphone, just doesn't show up, and "not connected 1; not connected 2" is all that show up on the mixer IN fields (the keyboard controller shows up in the out field)...I don't know what these "not connecteds" are as I have tried plugging a mic in to just about every available socket I have, both jack and USB mics. These work fine with internet chat, and they register propely in the volume test columns of windows own audio test checker. Any thoughts?
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Mar 17, 2006 09:30 am lower versions of FL won't record, I think you need the producer version.
You could record the voice track in something else, then pull in the wav file into the vocoder.
I've been meaning to try this, but haven't gotten to it yet.
Mar 17, 2006 09:33 am Or, you could get Cakewalk Project5 :-)
Mar 17, 2006 04:24 pm I've got the producer version. I am convinced it is some kind of routing issue.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Mar 17, 2006 04:40 pm yep, sounds like a software issue, sorry I can't be of any more help.
Hope you gets it figured out soon.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 17, 2006 10:29 pm mark, does FL see the drivers for your USB mic or your audio interface? That would be the first place to check. Then are you making the input active for the track?
The main thing is to make sure the drivers are active in FL's audio preferances or options.
Mar 18, 2006 12:22 am hmm. Well, the fl studio manual says this:-
FL Studio Producer edition or higher.
An ASIO driver for your soundcard.
FL Studio set to operate in ASIO mode. See System - Audio Settings, press F10 in FL Studio to bring them up.
The sound source connected to your PC via your soundcard or a USB/Firewire interface.
If there are no input options available in the IN box at 6 in the mixer (shown above), then at least one of the conditions above is not met. It is possible that your soundcard does not support the ASIO standard. In this instance you can try the www.asio4all.com driver on your system.
So far as I can tell, all of those conditions are "met" I have the asio4all. Still, nothing shows up "at ^" (the IN field) on the mixer except "none" or "not connected" which doesn't make much sense to me.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 18, 2006 03:37 pm Mark, what audio interface are you using? I scanned the thread quickly and didnt see any referance to it. It would appear that FL is not recognizing any sound card at all by what your describing.
If you are using the stock sound card in the PC it probably does not support ASIO at all. The fact that FL is recognizing the Oxygen 8 is a good sign that USB is working properly and all so I am guessing it is narrowed down to a driver issue.
What USB mic are you using if that is one of your options?
Mar 18, 2006 06:40 pm Noize, hi
yes it is just the stock soundcard, Realtek, although I am using the "asio4all" driver I downloaded. The "asio4all" shows up correctly in the "OUTPUT" field for audio settings in FL, but there doesn't seem to be an input field. In the mixer, as I say, I just get "not connected".
Pity I can't post a screenshot here, or I'd show exactly what was in these dialogs. The oxygen certainly plays ok, and the bend wheel works etc (I haven't gone any deeper than that, I was just so relieved that it worked). The soft synths in FL respond to the external keyboard and I can record what I play to a wav file.
The USB microphone is simply a logitech headset. As I say, I don't want to risk buying a more expensive mic until I discover why I can't get a peep out of ANY mic so far in the software.
I think you are right that the onboard soundcard doesn't support asio at all. But I thought the asio4all was supposed to get around this problem?
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 18, 2006 07:47 pm OK, here is something that might get us going in the right direction. Can you look at the audio drivers available in FL and post them here?
What you are looking for really is if you have WDM drivers installed for the AC97 sound chip. If you dont then Asio4all will not work properly. It needs to see the WDM drivers for it to function properly.
Mar 18, 2006 09:43 pm ok, here's what I have:-
In "Audio Settings" in FL, the following options appear on the OUTPUT drop down
********************
Direct Sound Devices:-
Primary Sound Driver
Realtek HD Audio rear output
ASIO Devices:-
ASIO4ALL v2
None
********************
If I open up the "show asio panel" option on this same dialog box, this opens the asio4all control panel (external to FL) on which is listed:-
****************************
WDM Device List:-
Realtek High Definition Audio: RUNNING
Realtek HD front green jack: AVAILABLE
Realtek HD front pink jack: AVAILABLE
Realtek HD audio rear input: AVAILABLE
Realtek HD audio rear output RUNNING (I believe this is also the one reported as "running" from the top of the list)
Logitech Mic: AVAILABLE
*****************************
EDIT: I've made some progress!!!!!!! I just noticed an "enable" option in the asio4all control panel which I hadn't seen before, and this enabled the front jack....NOW those appear as "inputs" in the mixer. But (guess what?...this never goes easily does it?....there's really acky static on the connection). I've not recorded anything yet, but even with silence, its like WWII radio crackle!
Mar 18, 2006 10:13 pm Yaaa....except now I'm getting white noise when I try to listen to / play ANYthing (sigh)...
The inputs have appeared, but the music's disappeared!
Mar 19, 2006 01:13 am Ok, I thought I'd post a little update here. I'm beginning to suspect one of two things. Either
1) this is an issue of these "headset mics" that I've been using...your typical internet chat mics that come integrated with the headphones, you know, and two jacks, one for the mic one for the phones.
OR
2) That there is some critical step I am not taking to route the mic properly so it can have an effect in FL.
Tonight I installed FL studio on my laptop, to see what effect a whole different computer would have on the situation. It's not that wonderful of a laptop, and its got realtek sound as well, but basically I ended up in the same situation. If I install "asio4all" and enable the IN and OUT stuff in the asio control panel and the FL audio settings I can
1) control the synths from the M-Audio keybaord
2) hear them being played through the headphones
3) but I CANNOT get the microphone to show up as anything happening within FL (here I might be missing some crucial step).
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 19, 2006 03:27 pm mark, I dont see anything critical you might be missing. IT looks as though you have found all the correct things to turn on to get it to work. My biggest concern was the WDM issue as that is the key to getting Asio4all to work properly.
I guess one question I didnt ask yet is if you are pluggin that mic into the actual mic input or the line input? This would possibly account for the noise you are getting as some line inputs will opperate one of those mics.
Otherwise have you tried running playback only in FL without the mic inmput acitve? IF all runs well with playback only then I am guessing you might just be enoutering the problem with the mic input.
As well, you might try recording audio into something like windows sound recorder through the line input. Use a pertable CD player or something and plug the headphone out into the line in jack of the PC and see if you get a clean recording that way. OR even try recording audio directly into FL if it allows it.
Mar 22, 2006 01:06 am Sorry for the delay. I do appreciate the replies. The asio4all thing seems well weird. That seems to unduce the massive static through the headphones....which happens at random times when I open FL it would seem. I guess the only really permanent solution is to get one of these units that genuinely stands in for a **whole** sound card, or to get a new pc, dang. That sucks, because the memory and ram specs on this desktop are really cool...it's just the sound issues that are poor. Should have thought of that when I got it I suppose.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 23, 2006 06:21 pm OK, you said headphones there. How are you getting the sginal to the headphones? Are they plugged into the headphone or the line out jack?
Also, have you tried this using speakers by chance?
Mar 28, 2006 05:35 pm Hi.
The headphones go into their own jack (input)
