Recorded a new song with all your advice! Check it out!

> > > Recorded a new song with all your advice! Check it out!

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Member Since: Dec 23, 2005

Hey guys! Well after putting all your tips and advice to good use, I finally finished the song I was working on. "The Soulforged"

www.soundclick.com/bands/...m?bandID=481743

Tell me what you think! More importantly, compare it to the other songs there! SUCH a difference! Thank you all so much for everything.

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Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Feb 15, 2006 08:53 pm

Well, I gave it a couple of listens and I dont know if Soundclicks player is bunk or what. But it was all high mids and high end. Cymbals and guitars, and the guitars were very bright and again very high mid sounding. I could not hear the drums at all really and there was no bass to it at all.

Dont know as I said if it is Soudclicks player or what.

Member
Since: Dec 23, 2005

Feb 16, 2006 10:59 am

The soundclick player did compress it, but no most of what you heard was me. Keep in mind that was recorded in the same room as where I was monitoring it, I don't have proper monitors, I'm using only an sm57 and an audiobuddy, and going through an audigy 2 soundcard.
No there wasn't a bass.
I just think that, considering my gear and recording atmosphere, it is quite the jump from my earlier songs on there. If I lower the high's too much, it sounds muddy (just trust me on this one) so of course I wanted to choose bright over muddy.

This is why I want to get a PODxt though. Being an undergrad student, I don't the money to go buy a condenser mic to go with the 57, a mixer, or a pro soundcard, and even if I did, my room isn't quiet enough.

EDIT: Though I did go back and do some more mixing with it. Cut off some of the high's and boosted the bass (of what's there). I tried taking some off of the mids but it sounded horrible, as that's my only real sorce of bass and the blend between the two. I boosted the bass of the drums and increased their volume, so they are more apparent, and the cymbols aren't as sharp, but still somewhat twangy because of the increase in volume. If I take off any more highs from the drums, the snare sounds like crap. That's about as good as I can get it until I can get a bass going, cause then I can put the drums back down in volume and won't have to worry about the bass drum not being heard, and the cymbols won't be as loud either. Until then!

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Feb 16, 2006 10:39 pm

ya, the tunes were great otherwise. I am gonna give them a better listen tommorrow again.

You definately are heading in the right direction though compared to the older stuff.

I am sure the addition of the PODxt and a bass will get you cranking in now time.

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003

Feb 16, 2006 11:36 pm

Great playing there man. Are those real drums, electronic, or sequenced? Good job no matter which.

I gotta agree with Noize, the low end seems to be missing. I can hear the kick a bit, but I don't hear anything other than that in the low end. Is there a bass guitar in this?

All in all its good stuff though, definitely good potential. Keep it up!

Kaos is only a form of insanity
Member
Since: Feb 03, 2005

Feb 17, 2006 07:25 am

got to agree on the bottom end it certainly is missing somewhat. get that sorted and you will be driving down the correct side of the road.

Member
Since: Dec 23, 2005

Feb 17, 2006 06:07 pm

Thanks guys!

Yup, I don't have a bass! I didn't realize until I recorded this song just how important bass players really are to a band. I tried just doing low ended guitars, but you just get a horrible muddy sound with the equipment I'm using. I need to look into getting a bass ASAP!!!

As for the drums, they are done on Beatcraft. Very cool program.

But yes, I'll see to getting a bass and a PODxt, and will update it when I can, or just record something else entirely. Thanks again!

edit0r
Member
Since: Aug 17, 2004

Feb 17, 2006 08:58 pm

Try D.I.'ing you guitar and pitch shifting it down an octave.

Member
Since: Dec 23, 2005

Feb 18, 2006 01:35 pm

Using Cool Edit, I went to Effects -> Time/Pitch -> Pitch bender, and chose the preset 'down a whole step'... but it didn't seem to do anything.

edit0r
Member
Since: Aug 17, 2004

Feb 18, 2006 05:01 pm

It would be '12 semitones' or '7 steps' i think

Member
Since: Dec 23, 2005

Feb 18, 2006 07:20 pm

Alright I used Audacity to change the pitch instead, so I have a bass in the song now.
I also played around with the volume levels of the drums, and tried to widen the rhythms some more.

I think it sounds much better. How about you guys?

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Feb 19, 2006 01:34 pm

Indeed, much more definition to the drums and the bass really does add to it.

You will get it all down eventually, it usually takes some time. Once you get that guitar tone down you will have it made. As I said before I like the tune for sure, very well done.


Member
Since: Dec 23, 2005

Feb 20, 2006 02:40 am

Thanks! :)
Practise makes perfect I suppose.

I put together another song you may want to check out. Has 6 rhythms going, 3 leads, a bass, drums, and all sorts of various back ground noises. A Helloween cover called Initiation.

I feel like each recording I do is developing from the last. This is a good sign at least.

Can't wait to get a PODxt though :)

EDIT: I seem to have some trouble getting frequencies around the 600 Hz mark. I've tried boosting them around there during the mixing, but it doesn't do too much.
Any guitar tone suggestions for touching around there? I've tried many different high and low combinations on the pedal I'm using, but can't seem to get anywhere near there.

As for my amp's EQ... I just usually leave the bass anywhere from 7-10, the contour at 3-4, and the treble at 5.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Feb 20, 2006 06:57 pm

Another nice piece of music.

As for the guitars EQ, I dont know what to tell you. You should really notice if youa re boosting around 600Hz for sure. It will get muddy if you go to far.

What type of Eq are you using, and is it in Cool Edit or Audacity? I would suggest a parametric if either of those apps have one. And you will want to keep the Q pretty narrow as well. That way it will help avoid getting muddy from a small amount of boost.

Member
Since: Dec 23, 2005

Feb 21, 2006 01:35 am

Thanks Noize.

The EQ I've been using is the graphic EQ in Cool Edit. There is a parametric one, but I've never understood how to properly use it. With the graphic one I could just increase where I think it needed it the most (after using something like winamp to look at the display of the Hz when the song is playing ).

But again, I'm only estimating. It is somewhere in the range of 310-1k HZ.. so just left of the centre frequencies.

Adding the bass gave my sound some more kick, but I'm only touching the very far left frequencies. All my guitars, both lead and rhythm, seem to be concentrated around the (estimating) 3k - 6k mark. The only thing that seems to be getting any response in the other regions are the drums, particularly the snare, or when I do background stuff (like in that last song).

The cymbols are alone with the high's which I'm fine with, and I'd want my leads to stay where they are. The problem is really my rhythms.. I'd really like them to fill the gap between the middle frequencies and the bass' far left region.

Any ideas on how to do this? I've been spending weeks trying to figure out a good amp/pedal EQ set-up in order to touch those frequencies, but can't seem to get a decent tone. If I have too much bass with not enough treble, my sound becomes muddy. If I have too much treble, it will be very piercing when recording it.

Right now, I have a tone that sounds very good live, but when recorded, seems to lack the low/lower mid area.

Again, here is my current set up. Perhaps we can work off of it and find where the problem is?

My lil' Amp: Marshall MG15DFX
Bass: right now, full
Contour: 3.5
Treble: 5
FX: Reverb at 3

Then through a clean channel I use a:
Digitech 'Grunge' (heavy distortion, much heavier than, say, the BOSS DS1. This pedal is probably where my troubles are. I love it live, but I'm not sure if it is a good recording tool)
This is the one I usually play around with, and generally leave the amp alone.
Loud: Adjust the volume based on the lows and highs so it doesn't clip.
Low: Usually a bit louder than the High, else it is muddy and very unclear. Right now at 7.
High: Going beyond the Bass usually makes it piercing, and if too far behind the bass, extremely muddy. Right now, is at 6.
'Grunge': To be honest, it doesn't do much for the sound whenever I've played with it, but I'm going to try tinkering with it more. It let's the pick and slides be heard more, and adds good sustain. I usually keep it at 5 and don't touch it, but I'm going to start playing with this more.

As for the mic placement, (sm57) I have it pointing at a 45deg angle towards the centre, as was suggested to me by the lead guitarist of Savage Circus. Though, he didn't specify which side he came from. Right now, I have it coming from the centre right side, making a 45deg angle with the grill.

To give an idea of the rhythm sound I want to get, check out any of the songs on Blind Guardian's "Imaginations From The Other Side" album. Go download "Another Holy War" (don't worry, the band encourages mp3 sharing and has said so many times) and you'll hear some really thick rhythms. If I can get a sound like that, I can die a happy man. Heck, if I can get a tone like Iced Earth, or even Judas Priest's Painkiller... that would be cool too.

Edit: It is final. I've done next to every combination possible on this pedal, and it never touches those frequencies. The more low it has, it will react in the 60-170 hz region. The more high it has, it will react in the 3k-6k region. It never really touches anywhere in between.

This is too bad. I like the sound I get in the room, but it just isn't the same when recorded :(

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Feb 21, 2006 10:39 pm

Drizzt, do me a favor and see how a track sounds if you record it without any reverb at all. I am wondering if that is the culprit giving you the headache in that tone range. Since the reverb is probably accentuating the upper mids, I am guessing that might be causing the problem.

As for the mic placement, do you have the 57 outside the cone of the speaker pointing in or somewhere inside the perimiter of the speaker cone pointing toward center?

I might suggest having the 57's nose just inside the outer edge of the cone, about an inch or so away from the grill still with it pointing toward the center. Try that and see what you get.

AS well, does taht amp have a 12" or 10" speaker in it?

Member
Since: Dec 23, 2005

Feb 22, 2006 01:20 am

Thanks I'll try it without reverb tomorrow (too late to be rocking at this time of night).
As for the mic placement, it's inside of the cone pointing towards the centre, coming from the right.

I took some pictures and put them on my angel fire site.
www.angelfire.com/dragon3/nirvana/blah/

May have to type in the url if the link doesn't work. Nonetheless, I'll move the mic more to the right and try that without the reverb tomorrow. Hopefully I'll get some of those lower mids.

And heck, I think the speaker is only an 8"er. Judge for yourself!

EDIT: While I'm at it, I'll put up a picture of the range of frequencies I'm talking about (same site as above). I tried to capture a spot where there was little else going on but the guitars. You'll notice the very far left would be the bass, the middle is the rhythms and lead, and to the right would be the fading of a cymbol crash.
Ignore the 'Winamp Equalizer'. I turned it off for this one. You'll see the big gap I'm talking about.

Member
Since: Dec 23, 2005

Feb 22, 2006 01:31 pm

Still not much of a difference. :(

Same ol' sound, just without reverb. I just don't think this pedal is good for recording. It just comes across as a fuzzy guitar sound with high mids, or, a muddy low ended guitar that is fuzzy. Both I don't really care for.

And I hate the amp distortion. Not nearly metal enough for my tastes. (plus I pick up radio waves whenever the gain is turned on past 2)

Man, I need that PODxt. Maybe get the metal shop mod with it... mesa boogie triple rectifier... *sigh*

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Feb 22, 2006 08:42 pm

Drizzt, I think you are gonna have to live with that sound till ya get the POD. I forgot that amp has an 8" speaker in it. That might be part of the problem there, so dont blame it all on the stomp boxes.

Here is a trick to try that works alot of the time. Copy the recorded guitar track and paste it into a new audio track. Now suck most of the mids and highs out of it. Boost the lower end from abou 450Hz to 650Hz. You can go lower if you like. Now start your playback and bring the new low end track up slightly as it is playing back. You may want to pan the original just a tiny bit one way and the low end track slightly the other way. See if that will give you a little more bottom on the guitar sound.

Other alternative is to use 2 mics and set one about 3 feet back from the amp. Adjust the mics EQ after the track is recorded to a bit more bottom and repeat the mixxing process above.

Cant garauntee that it will work, but I have used tricks like that a lot with good results.

Member
Since: Dec 23, 2005

Feb 22, 2006 09:06 pm

Alright, thanks Noize. I'll try that EQ trick and see how it goes.

I thought that practise amps were used a lot of the time for recording as opposed to large cabs.
Or when they say practise amps, are they refering to 10-12" speaker ones?

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Feb 22, 2006 10:52 pm

Ya, alot of time they are usually using a 10 or 12.

I have done several things with smaller speakers as well. But that was with some extreme makover to the sound and many layers of what I described above. But it isnt an effect that is highly used.

If youd like an example, try this out. www.homerecordingconnecti...=music&id=5

This was done in an entryway of my old house. Using one of those miniture plastic Marshall replicas. It is done with several mic's as well as several tracks all tweaked out. Lots of hours of work for just one guitar sound.

Member
Since: Dec 23, 2005

Feb 23, 2006 02:53 am

Cool stuff, Noize.

The trick seemed to help a bit, actually. The overall tone isn't quite what I want, but it definately sounded better, and not as high.

Well thanks for all the help. I'm probably going to retire from distortion until I can get a PODxt. I'll probably do some clean songs in the mean time, or tinker with some of my current ones' EQ some more.

I'll make a new thread if I record anything new!

The fat one always watches us.
Member
Since: Nov 08, 2002

Feb 28, 2006 07:27 pm

I didnt know you were hip hop...
jk
full rich sound, it all comes through.
nice -crisp
sings for it self, thats some nice playing-
Cliffs of dover? whats that- you gotta hear Drizzt!!!
you are king ove youre domain my friend-

loved the changes
loved the recording
loved the commitment to perfection

two thumbs up from the stupid fat hobbitesses

> > > Recorded a new song with all your advice! Check it out!

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