placement of overhead condensors
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Posted on Jan 13, 2005 04:07 pm
af_analog
crazy canuck
Member Since: Nov 25, 2004
First of all, happy new year to HRC!
I just got 2 new large diaphragm condensors for overheads (cardiod pattern) and wanted to know how those of you that use them place them over the kit.
I tried the first obvious setup and put them about 6-7 ft off the ground horizontally with them facing down at the kit. This produced a great sound of the whole kit but this is not what we wanted. We ended up settling on having them hang vertically (upside down) about 6-8" above the centre of each cymbal (one left and one right), except we faced them away from the kit. This produced the sound we wanted, great cymbal tone and dynamic but VERY LITTLE bleed from the rest of the kit.
If any of you use large dia. condensors for overheads then shoot me some feedback as to how you place them and for what result. CHEERZ!!!
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Jan 13, 2005 05:46 pm check out the tips portion of this forum it has been helpfull to me in the past ,how many mics are you using in all for your kits ?i haven't used large diaphrams for cymbals but have used a pzm taped to the glass of the booth directly behind the 2 crash cymbals and got awesome result's with just a little bleed from the rest of the kits that sound good as well ,and mic the floor tom and ride together with a seinnheiser 421 ping ping pop chicka chick boom boom
af_analogcrazy canuckMember
Since: Nov 25, 2004
Jan 14, 2005 09:04 am I have read most of the tips section...very good info in there, but I didn't find much about various placements of overhead mics. Maybe I'll write that article one day. It's funny that you mention a pzm, we have a Shure PZM that we use in the kick drum, AMAZING kick drum sounds. We have the PZM in the kick, a 57 on the snare, pencil mic on the hats, and these 57'ish mics on the toms, and then 2 large condensors for overheads. We just found that if we had the condensors too high above the kit, sitting horizontally, facing down at the kit then we picked up just as much "KIT" as we did cymbals. This could be a good thing if you wanted a really "roomy" sound to your drums, we were not looking for this. So by moving them to the positions I mentioned last, we eliminated this problem and got what we wanted. I just wanted to let everyone else know in case they were facing the same problem. Keep the feedback coming...CHEERZ!!!
Jan 14, 2005 09:20 am wow i didn't know that SHURE made a PZM ,i thought the patent was owned by CROWN ,but it could be i was misinformed as some of my local resources in the past have been unreliable.i have heard of M-S miking the room for a really cool sound but it requires mics with various patterns i believe .i think you need a cardioid pattern in one directin and a bidirectional pattern for left and right but i'm not sure i am correct on this as i have never actually done it
af_analogcrazy canuckMember
Since: Nov 25, 2004
Jan 14, 2005 09:57 am Yes, we have a shure PZM...I can't remember the model # but I'll be at the studio this weekend and I'll take note of the model # and post it back up here. I'm telling you though, try yours in the kick drum! We place it on a blanket inside the shell about half way. CHEERZ
dansaltdoganother day another ray of hopeMember
Since: Oct 14, 2004
Jan 14, 2005 10:09 am I've not heard of hanging the mics as you describe. I would have thought that having them more or less horizontal above the cymbals would do the trick. But hey, if it works. I might even try it myself
I use the overheads to pick up the kit aswell as cymbals, to give the sound some air. The tricky part is the placement. If the mics are in front of the kit, then the snare is being picked up predominantly by the left hand mic (from drummers perspective). To overcome this, I place each mic a similar distance from the snare by moving the right mic slightly behind the drummer. This ensures that snare is dead centre, but the rest of the kit still maintains stereo imaging. Then its down to EQ to add or remove what I do or don't want
af_analogcrazy canuckMember
Since: Nov 25, 2004
Jan 14, 2005 10:44 am dansaltdog, what you described is more or less where we started...and if you are looking for that "roomy" drum sound then this is definately the way to achieve it. We are trying to get a LESS roomy sounding drum recording with more emphasis on the individual mics themselves. So our kick sound is only coming from the kick mics, snare sound is only coming from the snare mics...etc. It was a much more challenging approach but the end result once we got all the mics placed right was amazing. We can now adjust the sounds of each piece of the kit without worrying about changing another pieces sound. Thats just what we were striving for, our method is no more correct than yours, just a different approach and a different feel to the drum recording. Give it a try, you may like it too, although for certain genres it may not work very well...I like the roomy sound for some genres. CHEERZ!
af_analogcrazy canuckMember
Since: Nov 25, 2004
Jan 14, 2005 10:54 am I figured I better mention a couple of more things here...one of the biggest benefits that we got from placing the mics this way (aside from the lack of bleed) was the dynamic to our cymbal sounds. By having the mic closer we now have REALLY powerfull sounding cymbals, we get a nice quick piercing sound followed by a nice resonance because the cymbal sound is right in the mics cardoid pattern, but no other part of the kit is.
A WARNING though, read the specs on your mics to make sure you wont damage them due to high SPL. I think a cymbal crash up close is about 130 db SPL but don't quote me on that...
