Oct 27, 2009 12:30 am also, i dont really have an awesome speaker setup...
thoguh i have behringer headphones...HPS 300
Whats my mix missing??
Posted on Oct 27, 2009 12:28 am
raahil.k
ffsdfasdfads
Member Since: Oct 05, 2009
Hi, i've been doing some basic mastering but am never able to achieve the crisp and synthesized sound like in a song say, carnival of rust.
it sounds like i'm missing a bunch of bands even though my songs are in 48K and the cd songs are 44.1K
if i could get tips based on the song, i'd really appreciate it...
heres a link to 4 of them....
www.soundclick.com/spacevillager
u can leave out claustrophobia though, the mix there is kinda complementary to the vocalist..
dont know if u need this, but,
my hardware :
M-audio delta 1010lt
MO8
working on nuendo..
right now my final master chain is such :
paragraphic EQ > phase limiter> stereo imager > Limiter
Thanks a lot guys, this forum has been the best ever...
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Oct 27, 2009 12:30 am also, i dont really have an awesome speaker setup...
thoguh i have behringer headphones...HPS 300
Oct 27, 2009 03:55 am Okay, I gave them a quick listen, but I'll have to wait til tomorrow to get in a more in-depth idea. Bear in mind, I'm no pro, and I'm barely a rookie. I gave a listen to Carnival of Rust to give myself a reference point.
I think for the most part you're hitting fairly close to the mark. And I do like the songs in and of themselves; I think you're doing some good work.
I think the sound between all three tracks is pretty consistent, and they compliment each other pretty nicely. I think there just needs to be some tweaks EQ and level-wise in the mix. Though with the mastering effects in use, I don't know if that is really the case or not. It may be the mastering effects themselves that do more harm that good.
In general, and at a glance:
For the first two tracks (Tears, and Forgive): In Tears, it sounds like some of the tracks are competing for space with the vocals. In the intro, the lower synth strings sound like they're muffling other things a little as well.
In Forgive, taming the drums, mainly the snare, might help a bit. Probably not a lot of taming, but maybe enough to take the edge off.
In both tracks, I feel the vocals are pretty forward in the mix as well, and laying them back a little further might not hurt.
Now, on the last mix, Twisted Puppeteer, I felt everything was fitting together more than in the first two, though the puppeteer's (I assume) voice seemed to be a bit overbearing and a little too in-your-face to me, while the vocals themselves seem a bit buried in the mix, so I'd bring them out more.
Now, on the self mastering thing, (bearing in mind I'm hardly a mastering engineer) I get the mix how I want it, and use the master bus with very slight reverb, a little EQ for flavor, and enough limit to bring the volume up without clipping. When it comes to mastering, I try to think in terms of KISS. If I have a lot of effects in the master bus/chain, then there is probably something wrong back in my mix, or possibly in the core sounds. At least that's the direction I think in.
I would kill the mastering chain, and look at your mix naked as a whole, noting how each sound sits in the mix (with a fresh set of ears mind you) Use Poets of the Fall as your reference if need be. Listen to them on your monitoring setup, headphones, etc. Note how every nuance sounds. Become intimately familiar with them. Then go back and listen to your own mix. If the mix itself sounds sub-par, then there's probably something in the mix that needs an adjustment. Make those adjustments, and then ask yourself again if you really need some of those effects in your mastering chain, and whether they help or harm the mix.
I'll try to get a more thorough listen in tomorrow, as this was more of a "I think in this direction" sort of post rather than a more critical analysis. And of course, other HRC members with far superior setups than me will chime in as well ;) I hope my ramblings help point in the right direction.
Oct 27, 2009 08:49 am I think the mixes r definitely already in teh ballpark, they r quite clear except for maybe some of ur ambient sounds but they r overall good and moody which to me is a big thing, getting a mix to convey wat the music is doing
as for mastering i think there isnt a ton of cohesion at the moment whcih is something i feel is more in the mastering process, is a combination of eqing so that the overall song is a bit flatter across the spectrum or atleast doesnt have wild peaks in certain freqs and a little bit of compression just to further level it all out.
its also sounding a bit cold to me, maybe think of running it through some analog equipment or a warmer
Oct 27, 2009 10:58 am THIS FORUM IS AWESOME!!! Thanks guys.. i'll give the mixes a looksy and revert back...
Oct 27, 2009 11:00 am btw, any idea how i can get those ambient sounds?? do i need to add an instrument or will a proper mix do it??
Oct 27, 2009 01:53 pm Okay, I just gave them a better listen, and I'm going to agree with what Crux said. I'll stand by my earlier comments as well. Definitely hitting close to the mark though, and the mixes are coming through nice and clear.
I think the mix does sound a little cold as Crux said. I kinda had the same feeling last night listening on my headphones (fiancee was asleep, so I had to switch to the cans) but I wasn't 100% sure on it. (Using ATH-M40fs headphones)
On clearing up the ambient sounds, I think some creative EQ will help clear them up and help to give them their own space in the mix. I think maybe the lower synth strings with the ambient background noise may be creating some of the mud in the intro to Tears.
I'm wondering if using some creative automated panning on the background ambient noises in Tears would help, to give a sense of the sound moving around or in and out of the stereo field as a bit of ear-candy/coolness-factor. It's worth a try as a "see what happens" kinda thing :-)
I still feel Puppeteer was the most balanced of the three mix-wise.
But yeah, good sound overall, and you're doing a good job of conveying the sense of emotion in the songs. You do a great job of setting the mood.
Oct 27, 2009 08:34 pm I'll jump in as well to add a few things. The mastering chain does indeed need to be modified a good deal. Loose the paragraphic EQ for starter's. That is something that is used at the track level and even then I rarely if ever use one. I stick to straight up parametric all the way through. Much more usable and and easier to fine tune a track in the mix with it. Since you can narrow down the Q and target a very specific frequency it is much more suited to mixing.
The phase limiter and stereo imager are probably doing more harm then good as stated above.
On Tears of Lead as they stated above it sounds like most of the sounds are sitting in the mid and low mid frequency range and it is causing the piece to loose its shine or glassy upper end that you will find in a lot of electronic music like that.
I do suggest going back to the mix level without the mastering chain on at all. Then get the upper frequencies to come out a little more in the individual tracks themselves. Then once each track is refined nicely then you can work on using a limiter and if needed a bit of EQ to the master. If you've done you panning properly in the mix you should never need a stereo imager. The only thing I ever use a pluggin like that for is at the track level and I use it as an effect rather then an enhancement.
Liked the tunes as well myself. The Twisted puppeteer was actually very cool indeed.
Oct 29, 2009 10:37 am u know what... i'm gonna take all this, and do what i can to tears f lead for starters... and then i'll post it here again... and u can tell me if its better maybe??
this is like the coolest forum ever... 7 year of this stuff (amatuer) and i've learnt the most in the last one week...
thanks guys.. will post the sons soon...
btw, what do u think of the male vocals?? honestly..
Oct 29, 2009 01:15 pm Honestly, I think the male vocals are really well done. I think they fit very well with the music, and they do a great job of setting the mood and showing the emotion. Looking forward to hearing what you cook up. :)
Oct 30, 2009 11:40 am thanks J-Bot.. thats my voice m im glad u liked it.... i kinda hate it but i guess thats normal...
anyway guys, i've uploaded the new mix for tears of lead in my profile (the profile on this site itself).....
i removed the stereo imager, and parametric eq from the master chain... instead, i have a warmifier > limiter > slight 5%wet reverb
i've also tweaked some sounds at the raw level and reduced the volume of the vocals.....
looking forward to some feedback.... woohoo... thank you!!
Oct 30, 2009 11:43 am oh, btw, u notice the click at the beginning of the track... somehow its some problem with the mix down ... its not there in my project.. any idea how i could get rid of it.... m using nuendo and suspect a vst instrument at work there... :)
Oct 30, 2009 02:32 pm Yeah, much less cold for sure, and I really like how the vocals sound on the update, and the acoustic has a little warmth in the lower notes now too, which is good. I still feel the acoustic is a little bright compared to the rest of the mix, and might roll off the high end a little, but that's a minor, and preferential/opinionated thing with me hehe.
Hmmm, I'm not sure what might be happening with the pops in the beginning. I'm going to hazard a guess and say that maybe you've got a couple spikes getting clipped after the compression caused by mixing down to an mp3 file, but don't quote me on that. Almost reminds me of the pops you hear on old vinyl records.
You could try mixing down to a higher bit-rate mp3, or just mixdown to a pure wav file and see if the clicks/pops are still present. You could also try mixing down to a lower bit-rate mp3 and see if there are more pots/clicks present. If there are no changes with that, then it may be a VST is a culprit, in which case you can try disabling them one by one and render until you find the one causing it.
Also, don't knock yourself on the voice. Honestly, I think you have a great singing voice. I know what you mean though. I'm not particularly fond of my own voice either heh. I'm getting better at it though, and I uploaded a new snippet of CoP in my profile. (I really need to finish that damn song)
Oct 31, 2009 09:34 am btw, how do u guys export the final master... i generally do an audio mixdown, but in the last song i exported, nuendo and winamp were playing different versions of the same mix.... i have to record the whole peice on a separate track and then export that to get what i wanted....
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