$1500 in PT. NEED HELP!

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Member Since: Nov 24, 2008

hey all first time poster. I'm 19 and pretty much a pro tools virgin outside of recording some stuff in highschool on a mbox. My band needs to record our e.p now and we play punk/ska/metal. My question is what bit rate and song type and all should i make our songs at. 16 or 24 bit depth? 44.1 or 48 sample rate? i know this has to do with quality and the songs will eventually be put on a cd so i need the best quality possible. My setup is this. guitar/bass/drums go into a 16 channel mixer, out from the mixer and into my mbox 2, out of that into my computer. i plan on buying pro tools for dummies definitely but we would like to mess around and test stuff out tommorow so i just want a firm starting point. our last attempt at protools can be heard here www.myspace.com/corporateagendamusic our last pro tools attempt was the song "No Freedom" so you can tell we pretty much jsut know how to hit the record button. hah. thanks in advance.

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Veni, MIDI, Vici
Since: Jul 02, 2008

Nov 24, 2008 11:26 pm

Go at least 24 bit 48kHz. Higher if possible, like 96kHz. I'm not a PT user so I can't be of much help there, but I'm sure it has quality dithering algorithm(s) to resample your material down to the best CD quality possible.

I'm listening to your music right now and I although it's not my style I can hear there is potential.

And welcome to HRC of course. :-)

Since: Nov 24, 2008

Nov 24, 2008 11:34 pm

Thankyou! that should get us started.. and if all goes well ill have something for you guys to listen to in the next day or two.. my next problems going to be getting a decent sounding distorted punk and metal guitar out of pro tools..

MASSIVE Mastering, LLC
Since: Aug 05, 2008

Nov 25, 2008 12:58 am

Going sideways... If your final product is destined for CD, use 44.1kHz. 48kHz is for video (as is 96kHz, but 88.2 is a valid audio rate - as much of a waste of resources it is unless you're recording dog whistles) and even with today's better SRC, still very complicated and sloppy arithmetic down to 44.1kHz. Considering the down-side, it's not a very good trade-off for a lousy extra 1.5kHz of frequency response (that probably none of your gear, and certainly not your ears can take advantage of anyway).

Poll after poll, year after year, publication after publication, you'll find that anywhere between 70 and 80% of full-time industry professionals record at the target rate. There are more than a few good reasons for that.

Word length is another story -- Your software is almost universally going to be working in a floating-point situation with at least a 32-bit word length. It's a good thing. 24-bit minimum (as far as hardware, it's as high as you can go anyway) for tracking.

Reading again, especially with rock/punk where there are a lot of sounds with distorted cores -- I'd very, very highly recommend staying at the target rate or a multiple of the target.

Make sure you keep your levels reasonable, eh? "As hot as possible without clipping" was written by someone who never recorded anything.

More if you're bored: www.massivemastering.com/...ing_Levels.html

I don't mean to assume, but questions such as yours are usually followed up by questions such as that.

Best of luck.

Czar of Turd Polish
Since: Jun 20, 2006

Nov 25, 2008 11:56 am

Another thing when recording distorted guitars, back of the distortion a tad from what you would play live. It comes through plenty heavy and does not muddy up as fast. Just a suggestion.

Answer:On a good day, lipstick.
Since: Jun 24, 2004

Nov 25, 2008 06:24 pm

Per Cpt. Tripps suggestion to back the distortion off a tad, I will disagree.


You'll thank the good Captain later. Especially where you'll be layering guitars (and you will, despite any "purist" protestations), they can muddy up fast with too much fuzz in there.

Good luck and have fun.

Prince CZAR-ming
Since: Apr 08, 2004

Nov 26, 2008 11:22 am

still very complicated and sloppy arithmetic down to 44.1kHz.

I've often wondered about that subject: how accurate is the conversion, and is it worth it. Does 44.1 already have precise detail, and does the conversion down to 44.1 smear some of the details you tracked in 48k.

It's nice to see an opinion on that, as I've been struggling with the struggle between 44 and 48. I've also heard the noise that dithering puts into your material. I'm not too sure that it's worth the conversion.

I think I'm gonna do some work at 44.1, and see what I think.

Veni, MIDI, Vici
Since: Jul 02, 2008

Nov 26, 2008 03:34 pm

The problem I have with the subject of 44.1 and 48kHz is the conflicting information. One side, like MM, says that dithering is not the way to go and on the other hand the PDF file explaining dithering that came with iZotope Ozone which states:

When mixing a project, applying effects, and mastering, it's always advantageous to work at the highest sample rates and bit-depths possible on your system - this allows for greater resolution in all mixing and effects DSP, and results in fewer roundoff errors and artifacts.

There is a lot more in the PDF of course, but I just want to point out where my confusion is coming from.

Because of the iZotope info I track at 48kHz/24bit, use Reaper to resample down to 44.1 (still 24 bit) and let Ozone do the dithering from 24 to 16 bit during the final render. Now I'm wondering if, like MM says, I'm taking it too far and 44.1 would be enough in the first place?

Prince CZAR-ming
Since: Apr 08, 2004

Nov 26, 2008 03:50 pm

I think dithering is when you down sample from 48k to 44.1k, not the bit depth.

I tune down down...
Since: Jun 11, 2007

Nov 26, 2008 05:03 pm

No. Dithering is for bit depth. It has to do with introducing a small noise and and referencing the rest of the sound to that noise in ratio of the 24 bit and keeping that same ratio at 16 bit. Doing something at 48 is almost pointless. And 88 is just for purest because of the math behind it. 96 down to 44 is almost worse than just recording at 44. Go 88 or 176.4 if you can. And 32bit float if you want the more volume.

I tune down down...
Since: Jun 11, 2007

Nov 26, 2008 05:04 pm

Double: And the noise that is given during dithering, you'll never hear with the rest of the track going. MAYBE in a silent part, but that's only if you have it cranked.

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