Screen locks up and strange pattern appears

Posted on

Member Since: Jun 02, 2008

Hi all, I've got a problem I haven't encountered after sifting through a few pages of posts on here in different forums.

I upgraded my machine last year as my old mobo completely died to the following system:

* MSI K9 VGM-V mobo

* AMD Athlon 64x2 Dual Core 4800+
2.50GHz

* 2 x 1 GB Ram - Kingston KVR667D2N5/1G
- DDR2. The mobo has an onboard 128 MB
GPU which means my system is left with
1.87GB RAM

* Maxtor 160GB hdd for the system drive
- partitioned in two (the other half
holds all the Bond movies - nice)

* Maxtor 250GB slave hdd for media
storage

* Optorite DVD-RW 1205 dvd drive

* M-Audio Delta 44 soundcard in one of
the PCI slots

* Wireless keyboard and mouse

* Bluetooth USB clip

* Line 6 TonePort UX-1 audio interface
for recording guitar/vocal parts -
connected via USB to the PC for sound
processing and to the inputs on my
soundcard's breakout box for output to
the speakers.

I built the system with a mix of old parts from my old PC (soundcard, DVD drive, and the 160GB Maxtor which was my slave drive in the old PC and is now my system drive), and new bits bought from the local nerd emporium.

Everything was fine for about 6-8 months then it started randomly flipping out. I would be working - either recording music or using the internet, watching a video etc - no one thing seemed to trigger it, and the screen would randomly lock up and look as though it were an old analog TV that had lost its vertical hold (I will post a pic of the screen at the bottom).

The only change I had made to the system up to this point was adding the Line 6 unit but the problem had started occurring about a week before that, and persisted when I ran the system without it, so I've kinda discounted that as the cause of the problem.

I'm not sure if the rest of the PC was functioning in the background but it would also kill the sound if I was listening to/watching something, so I assume everything else went too. The only thing that would cure it is a reboot, until the PC does it again.

I spoke to the shop I got the parts from and they got it in for testing.
First time they couldn't find anything wrong with it,
the second time they told me my mobo was dead,
so it was replaced. I installed the new one and within an hour the same thing happened again, although much less frequently. I took the new one back and it was replaced again, and have installed a third mobo (all the same make+models btw), and once again, the same problem within an hour.

With the most recent mobo change i decided to add another 1GB stick of RAM to speed up my system. The problem I was experiencing before is now also accompanied by random restarts, sometimes the computer will restart - and others it will just trip out n the screen go black as if restarting, but it never quite gets there.

I'm assuming the restarts something to do with the RAM but I'm stumped on the mobo/screen lockup issue, after so many motherboards I'm considering the following:

* the store I bought it from has now
discontinued this particular mobo
- so it's likely quite old, and
suffering from the inherent problems
of being old

* there could be a compatability issue
with some of the other hardware I'm
using in the system

* the problem could be caused by some
other piece of hardware in the system
malfunctioning - bad RAM or HDD
perhaps??

* It could be a bad batch from the
factory

* MSI mobos are really crap and I should
look to another manufacturer


any advice will be gladly welcomed as I'm looking at just scrubbing the whole thing and building another system from the ground up specifically for music use. and while that would be good, it's also expensive and time consuming.

Here is a pic of the screen when the problem occurs. The colours vary with whatever's on the screen at the time, but the pattern always remains the same.


http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa45/jameskiddBTK/Photo032.jpg

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A small pie will soon be eaten
Member
Since: Aug 26, 2004


Aug 12, 2008 11:07 am

normally I'd say the GPU is toast but given you have replaced the mobo several times this is unlikely.

couldn't hurt to go and buy the cheapest, ugliest graphics card you can find, install it and see if that fixes it.

it might be a driver conflict somewhere.

make sure you have the latest drivers and firmware for everything too.




Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Aug 12, 2008 11:17 am

First thing I thought just based upon the title of this thread is bad ram.

swap 'em out with whatever you can find, and let her run for awhile. Or, take out the old memory, and run just on the new one.

After that test (since it's free, i'd try that one first), I'd try a real video card, with it's own onboard memory. Seeing as how the video is using system memory, it even more makes me think it's bad system ram. PCI / PCIe cards can be had for pretty cheap (50-60$) that'll have 128 meg on them, and not have a fan. Audio work doesn't need screaming video, so this would work fine (dual head is a nice touch as well).

If those two don't fix it (or you don't want to go with new video card), then heat may be an issue. I've seen PCs lock tight due to heat. Check your temp vua mobo sensor stuff, if you can. If you can't, then try pointing a fan at the innards, to see if it makes a difference.

After that, I'd suspect the processor. You've pretty much eliminated the mobo as a problem, having replaced it twice already.

Sorry if they tech shop has already canceled out these possibilities. I'm just throwing out ideas =).

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Aug 12, 2008 09:08 pm

OK, it does sound an look like a video problem. But as pjk stated it could be a ram issue as well. But I'll state right off that MSI MoBo's are pretty high end and having owned many and still running several of them including the newest version I have to say I have not had but one problem with any of them. And that problem was probably due to the intense use and sometimes over clocking of the board to an extreme.

One thing I did notice was the warning about ram and the use of High perfromance ram.

From the MSI sight.
[quote]Due to the High Performance Memory design, motherboards or system configurations may or may not operate smoothly at the JEDEC (Joint Electron Device Engineering Council) standard settings (BIOS Default on the motherboard) such as DDR2 voltage, memory speeds and memory timing. Please confirm and adjust your memory setting in the BIOS accordingly for better system stability.
Example: Kingston HyperX DDR2-800 PC-6400 operates at 2.0V, 4-4-4-12.
For more information about specification of high performance memory modules, please check with your Memory Manufactures for more details.[/quote]

I am wondering if it is a ram problem. You could go into the control panel and look at the deice menu to see if there are any conflicts with the on board VGA as well.

Member
Since: Jun 02, 2008


Aug 14, 2008 12:19 pm

I tried tests with swapping sticks 1 and 2 of RAM around and in various combinations together.

With stick 1 in green and stick 2 in orange the screen flip out occurred BEFORE it reached windows or even the windows loading screen. this has never happened before and it gave a different effect on the screen

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa45/jameskiddBTK/Photo033.jpg



Swapping them over seemed to have a better result but then within ten minutes, the screen did its thing again.

The only configuration that seemed to work was stick 2 in the orange slot. all others had some kinda issue either restarting, not booting and just repeatedly emitting a 1 second beep, or doing funny things with the screen as shown in the photos.

Could there be an issue with the way the BIOS is configured for the graphics adapter (primary Grpahics adapter is set to PCIEx and I am using onboard graphics).

Also, after your mentoin that MSI often have the RAM power supply running at 2v and these sticks are 1.8v - could this be a problem. Couldn't find anywhere that stated what the voltage going to the RAM was.

Im thinkin it could well be a slightly fried stick of RAM with stick 1, and also maybe a problem with the green RAM slot as problem occur with either stick in that slot when firing up the machine using either stick individually. However, Im just trying to go thru the system bit by bit to make sure it isn;t something else before I go back to the shop as I think they're getting a bit sick of me now hahaha!

thanks again for your help,
any further ideas will be appreciated

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006


Aug 14, 2008 12:36 pm

As far as installing the ram, you are doing them in the correct slots I assume. I only mention this as you say 1 green 1 orange, usually there is four slots (say 2xGreen and 2xOrange) and you install them in pairs (use both greens etc..).

I would also borrow a cheapo dedicated graphics card if you can for testing. I have had issues similar to this in the ATI 9700 Pro days, the screen was not the same but similar and it was sure as heck the graphics card.

Member
Since: Jun 02, 2008


Aug 14, 2008 12:39 pm

nope, just one of each, ive had a good look round the board too

Member
Since: Jun 02, 2008


Aug 14, 2008 02:09 pm

having reset my system back to what seemed to be the most stable setup (stick 2 in the orange slot), the problem with the screen occured again so I dunno wot the fudge is going on with it

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Aug 14, 2008 03:47 pm

Maybe you can reset the bios back to default, if it's changed. Or maybe other possibilities of presets, if there are any.

I still would iron out what ram voltage you're supposed to have / are using.

Are the ram correct type, and all same type?

Can you try altogether different ram sticks?

I would also try a dedicated graphics card, and bypass the onboard, though I can't believe it would happen across 3 boards.

How robust is your power supply? If that was the same for all different iterations, then that could be the culprit. I've seen power supplies do this type of quirkiness before.

I tune down down...
Member
Since: Jun 11, 2007


Aug 14, 2008 04:36 pm

Forgive me if this seems like... WTF is he talking about... But, have you tried different monitors?


EDIT:

I mean, if you PC is still functioning after it does that. As in the picture just gets ******.

Member
Since: Jun 02, 2008


Aug 15, 2008 06:58 am

yeah i changed the memory voltage in the bios to 1,8v as specified by the label on the sticks, they are both the same type kingston DDR2 667. Im not sure how robust my power supply is I know very little about them but i will have a look n get back on it.

Now on the MSI page for this mobo (K9vgmv) the page says that the slots are described as 2 DIMMs w/ DDR2 533 up to 2GB, but further down the page it claims to support 533, 667, and 800

Cynic, I honestly dont think its the monitor as any sound Im listening to, goes when the screen flips out so Im losing both audio and video.

I tune down down...
Member
Since: Jun 11, 2007


Aug 16, 2008 10:54 pm

Ah. OKay. Just a thought.

Good luck with your PC, man. I just sent my week old one back to the manufacturer. It had a similar issue. But, a weee but different.

Mans reach exceeds his grasp
Member
Since: Oct 23, 2007


Aug 18, 2008 09:30 am

Forgive me if you've already tried it, but have you tried putting in only one stick of RAM and seeing how it works then? It's rare, but I've heard of situations where even matched pairs of RAM dont play well together.

Other than that, I'd look more into what Noize was saying and adjust the bios to the correct voltage and such. Maybe at least check it and make sure it's right.

Member
Since: Jun 02, 2008


Aug 23, 2008 05:46 pm

keith: cheers for the advice but already tried switching em around as single sticks and as a pair in different slots, tried all possible combinations with various results, none very positive apart from an increase in time between flip outs.

Also checked the memory voltage in the BIOS and set it from 2v to the required 1.8v with not much result apart from they are now running on the correct voltage.

Got both sticks in there now and it seems more stable - can sometimes go upto 3 hrs before flipping out - but nontheless it still aint really accepable.

Regards the comment about the robustness of the PSU - I checked and it's a WINPOWER 450w which is apparently compatible with both intel and AMD products, not sure about its robustness but at 450w it should be ok right?

Could the fact its plugged into a multi extension socket which it shares with a few other devices, namely router, amp(for studio speakers), monitor, a lamp, a phone charger. most of em are a fairly low draw on power but i thought it might be worth mentioning

Member
Since: Jun 02, 2008


Sep 08, 2008 09:27 am

The problem turned out to be the power supply. After making the shop test it again it turned out that the PSU was duff so I replaced it and it seems to be sorted now.

Thanks again for all ur help guys, it's been a learning curve, I'll tell u that! haha

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006


Sep 08, 2008 03:49 pm

Wow, good to know as I work on computers every day and have never had a bad PSU cause a screen like that.

Never rule anything out :)

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