Midi USB Interface

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Member Since: Dec 03, 2006

Hello All,

First post here, great site! Stumbled onto this website looking for some help and have been searching reading posts this past week.

I've filled in my profile with some background info and a list of my current gear. I've downloaded Kristal and been able to get a test track of audio recorded. That was a good first step but I ran into a snag. I have a Roland A33 Keyboard with standard Midi cable with Joystick connector but my new Dell doesn't have a standard Midi-in connector! I incorrectly assumed the SB Audigy sound card upgrade thinking this would be a good card if I got back into recording. I've read here that the M-Audio USB 1x1 is a workaround for this. $40 and I'm up and running but I'm not sure if this is the best path, especially if I end up getting a new sound card down the road that is more suitable for sound recording.

First question - I currently have the cable from the Tape-out jacks in the mixer to the Line-in jack on the sound card, seems to work fine for the Mics. Should I consider getting a different type of cable and run the A33 into the mixer instead of the USB? Is this even feasible?

I have so many questions but getting the A33 plugged into my sound card my first snag in the process.

Thanks in advance for any help or advice.

Scott.

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Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Dec 03, 2006 02:05 pm

Hello Dabbler and welcome to HRC.

Roland A33, nice unit. I used one for years and loved it. As for the midi interface, that is your only way to get midi into the application. There are a few audio interface cards that will have midi i/o on them. Even some of the higher end ones do. I use a couple of ESI higher end interfaces and both have daughter cards that give you midi i/o which is great. Otherwise my main midi interface is a M-Audio USB Midisport 8x8 unit and it works great. I don't think you will need anything that big though unless you have a rack full of hardware synth's and gear.

But the answer is no for plugging midi into the Behringer 602 mixer. The little USB interfaces will work a charm for getting your controller into the application you are using.

Good luck and enjoy your stay here.

Noize

Member
Since: Dec 03, 2006

Dec 03, 2006 06:39 pm

Thanks Noize, really appreciate your help! I've spent the past week or so trying to figure this stuff out but there is so much to learn it is a bit overwhelming. I'm going to go ahead and pick up the 1x1. I think that will do just fine for me at this stage. Anything I do at this point will be track by track so I don't see the need for anything larger.

The A33 has been gathering dust for some time now. I'm thinking about trading up to a weighted key digital piano just for the feel. I purchased a Yamaha dd55 at Junky Daddy's for my son but he quit drums so I can trade that in for store credit. Thinking about using that and trading in A33 for the Yamaha P70. Not sure yet.

Another thought was to keep the A33 and use the credit torwards an Audio Interface if I start running into problems with the SB Audigy sound car. That is a whole nother investment of time figuring that out. Eventually want to mic in clean audio (mainly piano and vocals) and I've read a decent audio interface would be the next step past the line in on the sound card. My first test track wasn't too bad but the vocals were kind of raw and tinty, I'm going to play with different effects and see if I can clean them up.

Thanks again, and GREAT website! The articles, and forums and quick links to Music Stores have kept me pretty busy! I've learned so much but a drop in the bucket. I've downloaded trial versions of Reaper and Jamstix found from posts on your boards. That's next now that I'll have midi in.

I'll be back with more newbie questions for sure!

Scott.




Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Dec 03, 2006 06:53 pm

Yep, that was my main reason for offing the A33. I still had older analog hardware synths as well but needed a better controller and missed the piano weighted keys for some stuff. Although the synth weighted keys were great for synth type stuff the piano weighted give a much better feel. I ended up going with an 88 key Fatar Studio Logic SL-1100 controller which had velocity and after touch which the after touch was getting more important for me to have.

I would look at a couple of dedicated controllers just to be sure about what you want. The P70 is nice, but it may not be exactly what you want.

As for the sound card thing. Yes the Audigy is more or less a step above a stock sound card, just with a little better latency and audio quality. There are several much better interfaces for around the same kind of money as the Audigy.

Glad your getting around and finding some interesting info. And by all means just ask when you have a question. Although this time of year can take a bit sometimes to get an answer, be patient and someone will pop along.

Noize


Member
Since: Dec 03, 2006

Dec 03, 2006 07:38 pm

OK another question then ;>)....

Just checked out the specs again on the P70. Nothing about velocity or after touch. Just "Graded Hammer Standard Keys". Feels nice enough, checked that out in a shop but....

Is the primary advantage of velocity and aftertouch more control when playing other instrument sounds on the syth?

Looks like the Fatar goes for around $1,500 which is not in the cards for me right now but I don't want to throw good money after bad so I'm Thinking to relax until I digest what I have on my plate right now. Software I just downloaded is going to suck up some time.

Thanks for the heads up

Scott.



Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Dec 03, 2006 08:03 pm

Yes, I had a quick look before I posted that just to make sure it was the keyboard I was thinking of. And it didn't appear to have velocity or aftertouch. The velocity is really most important part to look for. As it can really add to the way a sound comes out. Even just simple piano is effected by how hard we hit the keys. And aftertouch is something that will really apply more to the software and hardware synths as most react not only to the velocity but to aftertouch to make the sonuds come alive. a lot of the software synths and samplers can be made to do some really interesing things with velocity via velocity switching and such. And as well the aftertouch can now in most synths be assigned to act as another controller for anything from an oscillater to a filter to envelope mods or amp mods in the synths.

You can find keyboard controllers for less then the Fatar units that will have both. Most will not be 88 key though. I actually found mine on a close out of previous years models. It was not an advertised thing but just happened to be asking about it and the sales guy whom I knew had one hiding in the back room. I ended up picking it up for about $600.00. And I have seen them go for even less in some cases if you watch carefully and hunt a bit.

And indeed your welcome for the heads up on that. It kind of sounded like you might be headed in a direction that would require more then the P70 would give you. Besides, that is the main reason behind HRC, to give you the info that might really pertain to what you should look for. And I've been in that boat, spending money I might have been better off waiting to as I needed more then the quick fix that something allowed at the moment.

Noize

Member
Since: Dec 03, 2006

Dec 04, 2006 06:15 pm

Hi Noize,

Well I picked up the Midisport uno 1X1 today and plugged it all in. It works but there is a slight delay between when I strike the key and hear the sounds. I'm not running any music composition program, this is straight off the sound card keyboard control screen.

After searching and reading a few posts here on this I come to realize this may be the sound card but I did not have this on my old system. It was an SB Live Card, I plugged the connector into the Joystick port.

It's not a huge delay but long enough to be distracting especially with faster tempo. The delay may not be any greater but it feels like the faster I play the further ahead I get.

Do you have any thought or suggestions? My current system has SB Audigy which I thought was a better card than the SB Live. Would this just be the USB connection slowing communication?

Thanks.

Scott.




Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Dec 04, 2006 09:57 pm

No, the USB connection is plenty fast enough and that will nto introduce any latency. It is the latency of the Audigy you are hearing. I do agree that I got very good results using a SB Live card as well. Running ASIO I managed around a 9 to 13 millesecond latency.

I must ask if you are running ASIO drivers with the Audigy or WDM? And hopefully not the MME or windows emulated drivers. If you are running MME that will be the ticket right there and you would want to swtich to at least the WDM drivers.

I'll also ask if you have the latest drivers installed for the Audigy.

You might also take a look into the Audigy control panel and see were your buffer is set. I would suggest trying ti around 128 or even 256. With good drivers that should give you a workable latency below 13 ms which is more then acceptable for most use.

Member
Since: Dec 03, 2006

Dec 05, 2006 12:09 am

OK Noize, you're dealing with a total greenhorn here. Regarding ASIO Drivers, no clue but under sound in the Device Manager it lists Legacy Audio Drivers, right click properties for this and all the other items under sound doesn't note anything about ASIO, MME but I think I recall seeing MME in a pull-down when recording audio through the mixer to the line-in on the sound card when I did that last week.

Right click on SigmaTel High Definition Audio CODEC lists Audio Devices, MIDI Devices and Instruments and Mixer Devices. Under Mixer and SigmaTel HiDef Audio lists-> SigmaTEl High Definition Audio CODEC but under MIDI Devices and Instruments it lists WDM-based devices. Clicking properties on that shows status: Driver is enabled and functioning properly. Also the "Use MIDI Features on this device" button is selected.

This IS a Dell with an integrated SB Audigy Card I think built specifically for Dell and I may be forced to use Dell Drivers. Not sure. I found this out on a Dell Forum trying find out why no Joystick Port. They said that the Card is a special OEM version, the Retail version of the same card has the connector installed, just empty spot on Dell's board.

Good to know that it isn't the USB at least. What would be the best path for me to learn more about what I need to do? Can I switch to ASIO drivers and is there a safe path to do so?

Thanks for your help Noize. A new challenge each time I turn around. Spent some time this morning with Reaper, trying to record Midi and I am completely intimidated! All Greek to me at this point. This isn't sinking in as fast as I would have liked.

Scott.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Dec 05, 2006 09:34 pm

Hey Scott, well the fact that your seeing the WDM based devices is a good thing at least. Although now after thinking about it and looking at the Kristal webs site I am wondering if it only supports ASIO and MME for use in Kristal.

I guess if the card is an SB card but it is probably a proprietary card for Dell you might try the Dell tech people and see if either they have an ASIO driver or if you can use the driver pack from Creative in order to get the ASIO drivers.

I assume you have looked in the Audio Options in Kristal to see which audio drivers are available. If not have a look there. I downloaded the newest version as the one I had siting around was one of his first version's. When I get a moment, maybe Thursday I will install it and see how they have the audio options set up. I keep an old SB Live in my surf box here and will take a look at how it recognizes the drivers and how it identifies them as well and let you know what I find.

We'll find a way to get your latency down one way or another.

Member
Since: Dec 03, 2006

Dec 05, 2006 10:21 pm

Hey Noize, I just finished posting on the Gear Forum, check it out. I found out today, I don't have a SB Audigy Card like Dell suggested. What I purchased was "Integrated SB Audigy" which is apparently a Software Suite. The sound card appears to be an Integrated SigmaTel Sound Card.

Here's the link, it's in a few posts on this page www.direct2dell.com/one2o...08/06/1510.aspx

I sure appreciate your help with this. I'm still trying to figure out what I have so I can make some decisions but I'm now thinking this card is probably not well suited for recording.

Hope I'm wrong. What do you think?

Scott.

Member
Since: Dec 03, 2006

Dec 05, 2006 10:30 pm

Regarding Kristal, I actually downloaded Reaper the other day and started working with it. It supports ASIO, it also allows you to record midi and audio so I decided to spend the time with Reaper instead. I sucessfully recorded a midi track today but the latency is worse than playing right off the soundfonts from the card.

There is so much to learn. I'll say it again this site has everything. After you mentioned the ASIO drivers I read a bunch of previous posts on that today. Still clueless but I'll keep chugging along.

Scott.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Dec 05, 2006 10:58 pm

Yep, read the other thread and will keep up on it. And sadly though I have to say the Sigma Tel is not much more then a standard AC97 type audio chip. Just a fancier name is all.

And as I stated before, HRC is all about helping each other out. And for those of us that have been doing this awhile it's just paying it forward for those who taught us what we know. And honestly, I still learn new stuff, even after doing this for over 35 years.

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