Putting it all together
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Posted on Aug 19, 2006 08:44 pm
steelhead
Member Since: May 29, 2006
This is my first attempt at setting up all the componants of my studio and needless to say I'm in unfamiliar territory. Here's a brief summary:
Sonar Home Studio 4XL
Edirol UA-1000 audio interface
Lexicon MPX-200 processor
DBX 266XL compressor/gate
I'll be recording one instrument/voice at a time, mixing multiple tracks, and then mastering the mix. Most of the instuments are acoustic through a mic, but an occassional electric guitar. My questions are:
1. How should I set up my signal chain?
2. Is it best to add effects/compression during the recording phase, as I mix the tracks, or when I'm mastering.
By the way, I know about 10 times as much about this as I did when I first started lurking here a few weeks ago. Many thanks to all the contributors of this forum.
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Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Aug 19, 2006 10:30 pm Glad to hear you are picking things up from the forum.
As for the signal chain, do you have a mixer or pre amp your going to use for the microphone? That would be the first in the sginal chain, then with vocals you will probably want to use the outboard compressor/gate to keep them even going into the audio interface.
As for other signal processing, most of us dont do any processing untill the track is in the DAW. Recording dry gives you a much better chance of not having to do it over if the effect or processing is not what you wanted. And you can experiment more with differant effects or amounts of effect once it is recorded without permanantly adding the effect to the track untill you are happy with the effect.
Aug 20, 2006 01:38 am Also, too many layers of any effect, be it compression, verb, delay, gates, flange, chorus etc... puts WAY too many atrificial elements in the spectrum and turns audio signals into mush really quick. Thats whats nice about all the audio plug-ins today .. even though their sound may not be as good yet as many of the outboard pieces of gear, you have the option to really audition a ton of FX without taking hours to turn knobs and wire send FX etc. That Lexicon should do fine for verbs a soforth as well.
Just remember when compressing the VOX direct into the DAW to level transients, you're stuck with at least that much compression on the track from that point on, and you'll probably want to lightly compress, or have someone with a mastering set up further compress the entire mix at the end, so leave a little headroom for it by not totally squashing the VOX right off the bat. Nothing sucks worse than a buried, pillowy, or stale vocal sound that looses character no matter what you do at mix down or when mastering. Good Luck !
Aug 20, 2006 01:48 am 1 more thing, I've learned a harsh lesson about signal path chasing. A great voice, mic, preamp, compressor, and good takes can be hindered abruptly by a bad vocal booth or recording room. I've noticed that areas roughly 8' x 8' tend to yield a nice smooth fade, providing some basic sound deadening is done.
Try to avoid "the box" sound, an undesireable recording room verb on everything can really make things sound hollow, and is usually almost impossible to eliminate. You'd be suprised how good you can make your recoedings with just the gear you metnioned above providing the basic elements are nailed.
Aug 20, 2006 09:07 pm Thanks guys...just the kind of feedback that I'm looking for. All input will be welcomed.
Aug 21, 2006 10:08 am Noize...do you mean that I should go microphone into compressor, compressor into interface? Also I need an explanation of VOX and DAW. Is it an accronym or something?
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Aug 21, 2006 10:21 am vox is the vocals, DAW is the digital audio workstation.
the DAW term was used early on as to mean those desktop devices, with preamps, faders, hard drives, and burners. That you could do everything all in one.
Now the term also means your PC that you're using as a music station. This would include your audio interface (sound card), your processor, the software, and maybe your burner.
Like mentioned, you'll need a preamp of some sort, and you could fill in your profile, so any future questions can be referenced against your gear list, so we won't have to ask what you're using.
Microphone plugs into preamp, then preamp output can plug into the compressor. then the comp output plugs to the audio interface.
A mixer can be used as the preamp stage, if you want a little more routing flexibility, but if you're a 1 man show, then it's not necessary, and possibly overkill.
ALso, compression can be used at 2 stages of the process.
1. analog compressor, before the audio interface. This helps keep your levels under control, so you don't send a clipped signal into the computer. Clipped audio in the digital realm is very no-no, and is to be avoided at all costs. This step can also bring up quiet parts, and gives more 'tightness' to the sound, before hitting the analog-to-digital (A/D) converters.
2. in the digital world, as a plug-in. This part can beef up a thin signal, like some vocals, and a lot of times on bass guitar tracks. This step can also bring up the level of your signals. I use a digital compressor with a master limiter on my mixed down stereo track, to bring up volume, but keep from clipping.
hth
Aug 21, 2006 03:21 pm Thanks for the explanations pjk. I have four chasnnels of high-preformance mic preamps built into my Edirol UA-1000 audio interface. So I'm guessing that the microphone plugs into theone of the preamped channels of the audio interface, but then where does the compressor/gate fit into the signal chain?
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Aug 21, 2006 04:44 pm oo, cool deal. I hadn't looked into the ua1000, so I was ignorant. Good deal that it's already there.
I'll take a quick look.
Aaaalrighty. The UA-1000 has 4 insert points. This is where you'll put your compressor. But, you'll need an insert cable. This cable is a 'Y' cable, with two 1/4" mono TS jacks on one end, and one 1/4" stereo TRS jack on the other end.
The two mono jacks go into the compressor input, and output.
The other end of the insert cable, the stereo jack, plugs into your insert jack on your interface. The stereo part carries both the outgoing signal, and the incoming signal on one jack.
Here's a linky :
www.zzounds.com.../item--HOSSTP20
Insert, in this case, is used because you don't want any 'non-compressed' signal going through your signal chain. You only want the compressed signal. So, your compressor effectively 'inserts' itself in your signal chain.
Conversely, if you wanted some effect to only add part of it's signal to your normal signal, you'd use a fx send and return. Thereby controlling how much 'wet' signal gets blended back into the 'dry' signal. Examples of this are reverb, delay, chorus.
you should be good to go
hth
Aug 21, 2006 05:07 pm O.k., I'll try to embellish where pjk left off.
Since the Edirol has 1/4" TRS outputs on the back panel, I think you should be able to route the signal into the Edirol from the mic input on the front panel, then from the outputs on the Edirol to the input on outboard compressor, then from the compressor's outputs back into a different channel on the Edrirol, which in turn will give you the 'Mic-to-MicPre-to-Compressor-to-DAW' signal path. Now there may be a few problems with this method.
1) you may have to figure out how to change the firmware - software that controls hardware - to allow for this type of routing. Or simply read the manual as how to route signals independantly through the iterface. Some interfaces work in different modes, so if you're interested in this method, do the research.
2) If done like #1 suggests, you will be amping the signal twice which may slightly color the sound, or maybe not, try it. Amping twice may provide too much boost so control gain conservativly. There may be a way to bring the signal in passively so it isn't amped twice. Once again, look into it.
3) Or finally, and this is the easiest thing to do,..Try just plugging into the compressor directly, then out of that into the Edirol.
This would gove you the Mic-to-Compressor-to-MicPre-to-DAW signal path. Only problem here is the compressor may not drive the mic signal enough, and if you need 48v phantom power to power a condenser mic, you will be out of luck since most compressors don't have 48v phantom power.
If you had a seperate analog outboard micpre, the Mic-to-MicPre-to-Compressor-to-DAW signal path might be easier.
The issue that is potentialiy problematic is that the Edirol is acting as the I/O box (in & out signal router box,) as well as the mic pre.
Hope this helped. Try #3 1st if not using a condenser mic.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Aug 21, 2006 09:33 pm I respectfully disagree. The insert point is built in for exactly this purpose.
After the preamp, the signal is at line level, which is what the compressor wants. The compressor gets 'inserted' into the signal chain, forcing all signal to go ONLY through the compressor, then out the compressor, back into the signal path of the edirol, through the converters, and into the PC.
I don't see why you would make it harder, since the simplest way is right there already.
Plus, I'm thinking the ua1000 will provide phantom power, I didn't check that, but I'm pretty sure it will. Then condensor mics won't be a problem.
Also, if you plug a compressor into the outputs of the ua1000, then you'll be compressing already converted signal. the signal will go though the A/D converter, into the PC, then out the PC, through the D/A converter, out the outputs, then into the compressor. It's way too late at that point to protect against clipping. Plus you'll be running an analog compressor on a digital-ized signal. then you'd have to re-convert the signal back to digital to get it back into the PC.
I'd never do it, specially seeing as how a simple, analog, solution already exists, and minimizes the ins and outs, and the A/D - D/A conversions.
Somebody can clarify if I've been taking stupid pills here, but I'm pretty sure of this.
Aug 21, 2006 10:46 pm Oops, correct, the 4 inserts will work as channel inserts, I just glanced quickly at a picture and didn't read the specs as I should have. I agree, twice through A/D converters is absolutely unnecessary. I thought it was just loaded with I/O's, not an insert bank.
Aug 21, 2006 10:53 pm I'm used to an older 896 where one has to create the FX sebd/return in the recording platform. Also, I have to squint to make it out in the picture clearly, but I believe it has 2-48v phantom power switches. Nice unit.
Aug 21, 2006 11:30 pm Yes , the Edirol UA-1000 does have 2-48v phantom power switches but I will not be using condenser mics. I will be using a standard SM-58 for vocals and a SM-57 for micing acoustic instruments. I will also be adding some electric guitar tracks but I don't have any experience recording electric instruments. The Edirol has a Hi-Z input but I wonder if I should mic the amp instead. And this brings up another question? To add effects to the electric guitar should my processor be "inserted" like the compressor or should it come between the guitar and the Edirol UA-1000.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Aug 23, 2006 09:39 am Most people would say to Mic the amp, if you like the tone coming out of the amp, that is.
If you don't have a dandy amp, then you may be better with the software amps. You'd be using the MPX-200 though, I'd imagine.
If you're meaning the mpx200, then you can try guitar -> mpx200 -> ua1000 and see how that sounds. You may like it, you may not. Then also try guitar -> mpx200 -> guitar amp -> sm57 -> ua1000. This solution may yield better results. If you have stereo outputs, you can try both at the same time.
I would think both ways are valid, and only depend on a matter of taste. I'd lean towards the mic option. Actually, if you set up for both, you can a/b them to each other from the computer. Probably both would sound pretty good too. Mix and blend the two signals together, eq them a little differently, maybe add rev or delay to one differently than the other, etc.
I wouldn't put the processor in the channel insert. I suppose it could be done, but I'd rather have the effects before the preamp, where it was intended. Though it's certainly worth a try. Maybe the preamped signal pushed into the processor would yeild a cool new flavor on your sound. Certainly worth a try, anyway.
