Taking a Piece From Computer Composition to Orchestral Composition
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Posted on Dec 25, 2005 12:52 pm
Fuzzy
Only 32 Characters?
Member Since: Dec 25, 2005
So I've been writing music for a while now, but it has always been on my PC. I tried to convert over to Sonar or another program where you actually see your music written out as a score, but I was just too ingrained with the piano roll and simplicity of FL Studio. Of course I grabbed new sample packs, but I've never been able to break my addiction to FL Studio's simplicity.
Finally it's coming back to bite me.
I'm showing a composition (the mp3 file) to my Music Theory instructor last week and he makes me an offer I can't refuse. If I can score it out, he'll have the school orchestra perform it. I would absolutely ecstatic if not for one thing: I write for computers, not for people.
I mean, I have composition knowledge and of course I can read music and such, but I'm worried that the music I write sounds correct because I've spent hours modifying it on my PC, not because the music itself will sound full. I find myself often writing in ridiculous numbers of parts to get a full feeling just because I don't have to worry about who is performing it (5 violin parts, 3 viola parts, 2 cello parts, 2 bass parts >.< )
Does anyone have any tips for making the jump over? I'd hate to miss this opportunity. (Perhaps I'll post what I have so far with the song later after I finish a bit more of it.)
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flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Dec 25, 2005 12:57 pm id definately be interested in taking a listen to what you got going on. i'm meant to be working with the London Symphony Orchestra in the new year, so i'll be facing the exact same problem.
maybe try using somethingt like the Synful orchestra to trial out how everything sounds before handing it all over? its free for 15 days and will give you a pretty good idea of how to work this stuff out : www.synful.com/
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Dec 25, 2005 12:59 pm ps : why not export what you make in fruity as a midi file, then import it back into Sonar to make a score?
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Dec 25, 2005 12:59 pm pps : welcome to HRC!
FuzzyOnly 32 Characters?Member
Since: Dec 25, 2005
Dec 25, 2005 01:02 pm Heh, thanks for the quick reply!
Like I said, when I get a chance I'll upload it. I'm sure it's nothing special in your eyes if you're heading to work with the London Symphony Orhcestra 0_0
I'm not sure I understand what Synful will allow me to hear that I don't hear when playing the mp3 file. The reason I'm not simply exporting the midi file, is that I believe what I've written actually cannot be played by a human orchestra due to the flexibility I have when writing with the computer.
I'm glad to be here =)
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Dec 25, 2005 01:40 pm Quote:
I'm sure it's nothing special in your eyes if you're heading to work with the London Symphony Orhcestra 0_0
my thing's only ringtones, nothing too exciting...
sounds like an interesting composition - but dont underestimate the skills of a skilled orchestra - as long as you've got the ranges of the instruments right im sure they'll be alble to work something out.
post it soon!
FuzzyOnly 32 Characters?Member
Since: Dec 25, 2005
Dec 25, 2005 02:04 pm Oh fine, if you really have to hear it right now =P
This is just what I have so far. I'm probably going to add about another two minutes. I'm having a bit of trouble with the transition from the part at about 1:15 to the solo violin part with the pizzicato strings and flute.
There seems to be a compression hiccup I think around 1:30, I'm really sorry about that, I'm kind of on the run right now. I'll iron it out later when I get back.
media.putfile.com/Sadmovie4andhaif
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Dec 25, 2005 03:09 pm holy crap, thats awesome! the way you were talking i thought it was gonna suck (no offence!). im blown away.
if i didnt know that it was sequenced, i'd never know. i love the plucked string sounds, i've never been able to find a good set of samples of them.
im sure this'll turn out GREAT, i wouldnt worry about a thing
DiemusikString benderMember
Since: Unknown
Dec 25, 2005 10:03 pm I have nothing constructive to add but I wanted to say that this sounds great. What are you using to get those sounds?
FuzzyOnly 32 Characters?Member
Since: Dec 25, 2005
Dec 25, 2005 10:15 pm Well like I said, I sequence with FL Studio, but I use EWQLSO Silver Orchestra for everything else. Flame, the pizzicato strings are part of that pack.
Thanks a lot for the compliments! If anyone has any tips on the actual scoring, feel free to post away.
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Dec 25, 2005 10:58 pm you should be able to import the entire midi project into SONAR and have it print a master score for the director and sheet music for each part.
I think you have to opn each instrument and print from that view and then print the sheet for the director from the main view... atleast thats how it works in Rosegarden.
If needed you could send me the midi file and I could print to a PDF and send that to you... but SONAR should be able to handle it.
I would think even FL should be able to print notation...
FuzzyOnly 32 Characters?Member
Since: Dec 25, 2005
Dec 25, 2005 10:59 pm Yea, I know that, but the issue is the fact that I believe I stretch the bounds of actual playability since I've never had to worry about real people being able to play it...
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Dec 25, 2005 11:05 pm what have you done that might make it impossible to play? 300 violin parts?
BTW: I can't listen to the examle as the plug in doesn't work for me :) So I don't know what the music does
FuzzyOnly 32 Characters?Member
Since: Dec 25, 2005
Dec 25, 2005 11:08 pm It's just in like...10-15 part harmony. Since I can do whatever I have to to make the music sound full and rich, I usually don't worry about how many people actually play in an orchestra >.<
Only at some parts though...
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Dec 25, 2005 11:10 pm I'm remembering the first (and only) time I played a piece in front of the composer... I was playing snare and we were sight reading... the direcotr and the composer started complementing me on being able to keep up as it was a pretty fast snare part... but I replyed that it wasn't very hard...as there were only four rythems ... I still have most of it memorized 9 years later...
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Dec 25, 2005 11:13 pm 15 parts... if it's violin it should be no problem... they'll just divide it up so each part is covered. as long as there is a person to play the part it should be fine.
FuzzyOnly 32 Characters?Member
Since: Dec 25, 2005
Dec 25, 2005 11:18 pm I guess so...god I hate writing in dynamics >.<
I really don't have any experience with Sonar 3 (someone bought it for me as a gift, but I ended up never really learning how to use it). When I import the midi file, I don't actually see the music notated anywhere to print...I must be missing something...
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Dec 25, 2005 11:18 pm Fuzzy, first off I must commend you on an excellant bit of composing there. That is a wonderfull piece, very interesting. I did like the Pizz strings part as well. In a word I will say the piece is stunning. Well done.
I have composed symphony parts as well. And honestly I dont hear anything there that a competant orchestra wouldnt be able to play.
I would like to add a welcome to HRC as well.
I use Sonar 5 PE, and have been using Cakewalk since their humble beggining. I dont think you will have any problem's with the notation conversion from a midi file in Sonar. You may have to hand write, or add into the notation in Sonar but I think it will work out fine.
And absolutely repost when you finish. I would love to hear how you finish this piece off.
FuzzyOnly 32 Characters?Member
Since: Dec 25, 2005
Dec 25, 2005 11:22 pm I'm waiting 'till some inspiration hits =D
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Dec 25, 2005 11:23 pm Fuzzy, in Sonar 3 you will have several rows of buttons. There is a row, should be second row down at about mid way across the screne. The line up whould be piano roll, event editor, staff view and staff view will bring up the notation for each track one at a time.
Let me know if you can find it, but if you mouse over each button the description comes up on the tool tip.
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Dec 25, 2005 11:25 pm "...god I hate writing in dynamics >.<"
heh that is probably going to be the only tricky part. It won't have to be pefect as the director will be resonsible for the final interpretation...
director: "ok 3rd violin... you need to be forte -4db."
3rd violin: (blank stare)
FuzzyOnly 32 Characters?Member
Since: Dec 25, 2005
Dec 25, 2005 11:59 pm Noize2u, I'll check tommorow. I'm really burnt out tonight (oh how the holidays get to you.)
Heh, yea...I'll talk with a few of my friends who play in the orchestra to find out how the dynamics should work.
I think I'm going to go work on the song a bit now though...I'm really feeling this loud come back, I just hope I can make it happen! =o
FuzzyOnly 32 Characters?Member
Since: Dec 25, 2005
Dec 26, 2005 12:54 am Just going to upload a small section sketch before I grab some sleep. It's an extension of the file added above. I think the dynamic change might be a bit too abrupt. Too great of a contrast starts to sound a little stupid. I'm planning on a variation in the second repitition of the french horn part in the added section and of course finishing the piece 0_o
(That damn compression hiccup is back again!)
Any opinion on whether you believe this is the right direction for the piece is appreciated.
media.putfile.com/Sadmovie5
FuzzyOnly 32 Characters?Member
Since: Dec 25, 2005
Dec 29, 2005 09:36 pm Noize2u, thanks, I was able to find the staff editor through that. Still have a lot of writing in to do though >.<
I'm still wondering if the example I posted above is too abrupt of a change. If anyone cared to comment it would be greatly appreciated.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Dec 29, 2005 11:18 pm Oh crap. I forgot to post a reply after I listened. Honestly, I find it refreshing to hear someone write like that in a classical style. I dont think it is too adrupt at all. In fact it adds some excitement to the piece really. I will surely listen again a bit closer and let you know, but I really dont think it is a bad change at all.
PhilCPC WarriorMember
Since: Dec 28, 2005
Dec 30, 2005 01:45 pm Holy Bejeezus that's good! Man I rarely compliment because most orchestral attempts I hear are just trash but this is truly impressive. WOW and thanks for sharing it with us.
I do orchestral simulations myself, in fact it's where I cut my teeth in Computer based composition. I'm not great at it, but I know how to recognize something really good and bro, this is it! Two thumbs up!!
MauzgrrrrrrrMember
Since: Mar 29, 2004
Dec 30, 2005 03:24 pm check out the following programs:
sybelius and finale
they are both excellent for scoring. you should be able to import a midi file..
FuzzyOnly 32 Characters?Member
Since: Dec 25, 2005
Dec 30, 2005 04:16 pm Alright, Noize2u if you feel like listening again and updating your comments go ahead. Thanks for the compliments PhilC, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Mauz, I'll check out those two programs. I've heard of Finale before but never Sybelius. Do you have a preference for either of them? If so, why?
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Dec 30, 2005 10:22 pm Fuzzy, I do think you are moving in the right direction with thiw piece. The pause before the build up is just perfect, it gives a very dramatic feel to it. The transition is very good as it doesnt leave the feeling that it is over, more the feeling that something big is coming up, which it does.
I would love to hear the finished piece, or as you keep adding to it. I am very interested in the direction you are going with this.
Noize
FuzzyOnly 32 Characters?Member
Since: Dec 25, 2005
Dec 31, 2005 12:43 pm I'd love to finish it, I've just been so busy lately ; seeing family for the holidays and the like. I'll probably wait until Tuesday when I have a chance to show the song to my theory instructor before changing much more.
In the mean time I'll have to grab myself a copy of Finale or Sybelius...I actually think I have Finale around somewhere...