G8
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Posted on Jul 08, 2005 12:37 pm
dbmasters
Administrator Since: Apr 03, 2002
OK, the G8 is going on, security is up everywhere in the civilized world...we all know that.
They just announced 50 billion (or so) more money for African relief.
Now, I understand and appreciate helping other people, we are all in this together, and we all need to have each others back...firm believer in that...
However, where does all this money come from that goes to these relief efforts, wars and all these other things...do the leaders just pull arbotrary numbers out of the sky and then just go print more money? Does anyone in charge ever wonder if they HAVE the money? When will all this irresponsibility actually swing back and cost us all dearly...how long before almost our entire paycheck has to go to takes to pay for all this spending of money we don't have?
In addition, money has been thrown at Africa all the time, it has not helped...also, correct me if I am wrong, but aren't one or two African countries wealthy oil countries, but the money is horded by despot gov'ts? They are not hurting, they are being robbed...all the money in the world won't help, it hasn't yet.
I am really getting pissed off, and at this level it's not even a conservative/liberal thing, it's a political thing regardless of sides...no matter which party controls what branches, they all spend irresponsibly, the only difference is WHERE they spend...
Shouldn't budgets and programs be put on a ballot like everything else? If everything was on a ballot, you better bet more people would get out and vote...cuz it might be THEIR pet programs that get cut...Minnesota has proven their reps incapable of handling their job, as the MN gov't is now shut down except for critical branches such as police, fire, etc...why? Because the damn reps can't agree on budgeting...
Let us decide...let the people dictate which programs need to exist...majority rule, thats what a democracy is, right? If you PAY taxes, you should be able to vote on how those taxes are used...
ARGH, thanks for letting me rant, I just saw that huge number for Africa, and I got pissed...this is beyond party affiliation or personal beliefs, this is just poor management by all people concerned. If my budget does not allow me to buy something, I just can't buy it, plain and simple. Why does gov't have different rules?
Arrrrgggghhhh
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Jul 08, 2005 12:41 pm I fekin well agree 100%, I am not rich by any stretch of the imagination yet they STILL insist on taxing me to the hilt in every which way on goods, servies and directly...
I get REALLY pissed when I am called ignorant and uncaring to the plight of the Africans when you KNOW The money wont reach the intended a lot of the time and I also say, why should I feel guilty. I DO sympathise but at the same time, where does the buck stop...
Well said dB..amen BROTHA.
Glad someone had the balls to say that...
Coco
Jul 08, 2005 12:45 pm Yeah, some people don't understand the difference between caring and the ability to truly do any good...
I think what those people are going through is horrible, I think what Iraqi's and Afghani's were/are going through is horrible, jeezuz, the things happening in China are unspeakably horrific, makes me want to cry what happens to baby girls over there just cuz they were born girls...
But it's not like we have the power/money/manpower/ability to fix fekkin everything, at some point don't people have to take care of themselves?
I dunno, but glad to know somebody agrees...I am guessing they'll be some people here that don't though...like many issues, there is no perfect answer...
Josh RoseJR ProductionsMember
Since: Mar 03, 2005
Jul 08, 2005 12:53 pm I agree with both of you guys, and on a side note, I think the fact that the average family in africa has about 6 kids is not at all helping the poverty rate.
Edit: Not only having 6 kids matters, but when you don't even have enough money to feed yourself, why have that many kids?
Just a thought...
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jul 08, 2005 12:56 pm I saw a special 'in-country' documentary about N. Korea. The UN and/or Red Cross aid that gets sent there is routed to the military or to the black market.
They even had homeless hungry children scratching at the ground for crumbs while the black market and military walked around completely uncaring. You could even see the Red-Cross Aid logo on the bag, where people were selling grain and other food aids.
I'm thinking that this is the type of thing that happens in a lot of 3rd world countries, run by corrupt officials, with no accountability for their receipts of international aid.
I say that if some government has a solid plan, accountability with their aid, and be able to prove results, then we can continue to help out difficult situations. I agree that blindly throwing money and aid at a bad situation won't fix anything. Actually worse, it'll teach the corrupt officials that they can continue and get richer.
Jul 08, 2005 01:00 pm Quote:
I think the fact that the average family in africa has about 6 kids is not at all helping the poverty rate.
I have said many times that the best help we could give Africa is dropping down boxes of condoms and instructions how to use them...but then I get the "it's their culture" B.S. argument...which is bull, if their culture is part of the cause of their problems, then culture has to change, or the culture disappears...it's all mother nature taking care of herself...
It comes down to personal responsibility and self-preservation...all things must adapt or perish.
Quote:
I say that if some government has a solid plan, accountability with their aid, and be able to prove results, then we can continue to help out difficult situations.
agreed 100%, too bad they never will, it's just lip service for political gain and saving (or rebuilding) face in the global community...
Jul 08, 2005 01:07 pm Quote:
I have said many times that the best help we could give Africa is dropping down boxes of condoms and instructions how to use them
sounds good to me, kills 2 birds with one stone, aids and overpopulation, or does it?
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Jul 08, 2005 01:44 pm Quote:
[if] the culture disappears...it's all mother nature taking care of herself...
Quote of the week!
Jul 08, 2005 01:59 pm Quote:
Quote of the week!
I'd like to thank the academy...
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Jul 08, 2005 02:00 pm Why the heck are we sending aid to North Korea? Geesh!
If Africa, as a continent, were to pull together as a nation (stop fighting/killing each other for ten minutes), the result would be a powerful, rich, and influential concern. I'd love to see the poverty stamped out (by the way, isn't there some serious poverty in this country? No....Okay, let's continue sending probes to Mars...), but I just don't see any likelyhood with the way the governments around the world think.
The vote on these things takes place when you elect your leaders (er....well done there....), it's just that they spend too much time smearing their competition to actually go over policies.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jul 08, 2005 02:31 pm I dont think we are, it was a UN and/or Red Cross aid. I beleive we (and bunches of others) are sanctioning NK
Jul 10, 2005 01:29 pm A verse from a favorite rambling kind of song that was made about a year ago...
Now hang on there
We gotta at least pretend we care
Lest they show up our good intentions
I've been hearing about Africa Aid
And we all remember Band-Aid
And there's other kinds of aid
There's even AIDS aid
All the millions of dollars we've raised
But I'm askin
Cuz there's some kind of gassin goin on
And I'm seein all along
That someone's makin a gain
And it's not the poor people that gain
In fact, their plight is gettin worse
Like the verse about how they can come back around
And still want my last pound
I don't know whose pockets are being lined
But I know it's not the ones you and I had in mind
So much for trusting the madmen runnin the show
Jul 10, 2005 05:36 pm i kind of see things like db on the africa thing. i am a believer that endless aid gets squandered there. africa must learn to build economies, in order to get to a place where it can help itself. it's a long term project, and in the meantime there should be aid. i just want it to be good aid, which means aid directed slowly toward things that may not have immediate, visible benefits.
FunkDadyPNo Commercial Appeal.Member
Since: Jan 09, 2003
Jul 11, 2005 01:58 pm I agree db about distributing condoms. But in case you didn't read about this, the Bush Administration has cancelled condom distribution in africa in favor of abstinence (sp) programs. 100% of condom distribution has been halted. They believe that abstinence is a better "moral compass" to live by. But many people in africa think that you can get rid of AIDS by having sex with virgins or babies. There needs to be some serious education over there. Education is THE most important thing.
Jul 11, 2005 02:44 pm Agreed 100% FunkDadyP, education is ultimately the answer to A LOT of things...
There is no perfect answer, abstenence is unrealistic, condoms have to be used to work, and to educate people they have to want to learn. In the case of Africa, well, they don't want to in many countries/villages/regions of the area. I have had a few friends go there as part of the Peace Corp and other such relief efforts, and they have all come back saying the same things...people there WANT to do things like their dads, granddads and great granddads did...they do not WANT to learn new ways of doing things or new ways of living.
Asside from the corrupt gov'ts, that attitude of not adapting is going to be their demise, and I personally don't want yet MORE of my hard earned money wasted in that money pit...regardless of what that know-it-all ******* Bono says...Mr. moral compass for the world that stays in the US for 89 days then flies to live somewhere else so he doesn't have to pay taxes as a resident...yeah, I'm really lookin to him for moral advice.
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Jul 12, 2005 09:28 am It's my understanding that the 50billion is in debt relief... basically we already gave the money we're just writing it off as a loss.
Jul 12, 2005 09:30 am That's interesting, I hadn't heard that...I'm surprised, cuz that would be something to make Bush look bad, so you'd think everybody would be jumping on it...
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Jul 12, 2005 09:48 am actually the goal of the bono concert thing was to accomplish the cancellation of african debt not to actually give aid.
Jul 12, 2005 09:50 am I understand that, but Bono's grandstanding and hypocracy goes far beyond this one effort...I am speaking of Bono on the whole...not Bono on this one topic...
shepherdsampatron saint of quality footwearMember
Since: May 30, 2002
Jul 12, 2005 10:13 am Zek has this right.
But even more important (in my opinion) than the debt relief, the G8 has to affect regime change in Africa. These corrupt regimes cannot last without the support of the G8 leaders, they have to make this a priority.
Jul 12, 2005 10:18 am Oh, yeah, and the last couple regime change efforts have gone sooooo well in public opinion...
While I agree with you, I have kinda been coming to the conclusion that if people want change they can do it, if they don't, nobody can make them. If they don't ask for help, let 'em keep going on, and let them reap what has been sown.
No good deed goes unpunished it seems...
shepherdsampatron saint of quality footwearMember
Since: May 30, 2002
Jul 12, 2005 10:46 am I can't argue with that dB.
Unfortunately as long as these Banana republic dictators are supported by the leaders of the rest of the free world, aid is pointless and nothing will ever change.
Jul 12, 2005 10:52 am yep, you got dat right, which brings us full circle, back to my original point iun starting the thread
"GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK"
