The importance of normalizing
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Posted on Jun 17, 2005 10:18 am
ZX6R1033
Perdido
Member Since: Dec 15, 2004
I just discovered this last night. Any tracks that I record distorted are usually within a 0 to -3Db margin. However, when I am attempting to record something clean, It is more around -18 to -24. If I try to come into the computer with my signals as hot as they can get, I can only get it to about -16 and its starting to distort at that point. Last night I started screwing with my plugins, and realized that if I normalize each clean track individually, I can achieve the desired result without added distortion. Makes me quite curious as to what the other plugins do that I have never played with before.
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vdalehubbardLost for words with all to say.Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003
Jun 17, 2005 10:25 am Somebody correct me if I'm wrong on this. I think it would be best to go ahead and mix it with the volumes you have and making sure it doesn't distort of course. You will then put a limitor on the whole mix in the mastering step to bring the volume up without it distorting. Course, I could be totally wrong about this.
Jun 17, 2005 10:36 am If you are getting distortion at anything over -16 db there is something wrong with your system. You should have your finished tracks peak at -3db with no distortion.
vdale, I won't say your wrong, but I never use limiters...
ZX6R1033PerdidoMember
Since: Dec 15, 2004
Jun 17, 2005 10:37 am Somebody correct me if I'm wrong on this. I think it would be best to go ahead and mix it with the volumes you have and making sure it doesn't distort of course. You will then put a limitor on the whole mix in the mastering step to bring the volume up without it distorting. Course, I could be totally wrong about this.
I hardly see how this could be possible, since I am trying to match a quiet part to a loud part. Mixing them, THEN normalizing would not help, even in the least. Since it is only one part that is quiet, its pointless to drop the Db on the rest of the tracks individually. :-/
ZX6R1033PerdidoMember
Since: Dec 15, 2004
Jun 17, 2005 10:38 am If you are getting distortion at anything over -16 db there is something wrong with your system. You should have your finished tracks peak at -3db with no distortion.
My V-amp is turned up full, my mixer is turned up full, but im still not getting the desired volume while recording a clean signal. If I use distortion, it is more than enough.
Jun 17, 2005 10:44 am Have you tried compressing your clean signal to bring up the volume of the clean part? I personally use compression quite often on clean and acoustic type instruments, not a lot, but even a little can make a big difference.
Actually, it's not uncommon to drop the level of other tracks if one isn't hot enough...it's really not about whether you drop or raise levels in the mix, it's just getting them mixed...but you want to get them mixed as hot as possible...and get them recorded as hot as possible, if you normalize up that far all the time, the noise floor gets raised with it.
ZX6R1033PerdidoMember
Since: Dec 15, 2004
Jun 17, 2005 10:59 am the noise floor comes up more in compression than normalizing, in my mixes. But, I havent had any more than 1 track in a 10-15 track compilation that needs to be raised, so I have never thought anything of droping the tracks to match, then normalizing the whole thing.
Jun 17, 2005 11:03 am Yes, they will both raise the noise floor...anything that brings up a weak signal will do that.
It is my suggestion that you need to re-record that track, you need to record it hotter.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jun 17, 2005 11:11 am Quote:
My V-amp is turned up full, my mixer is turned up full, but im still not getting the desired volume while recording a clean signal. If I use distortion, it is more than enough.
My delta has a input recording level in the delta control panel. If you have something like this, you could bring this up when recording quieter takes. This may bring up the noise floor as well, but it's something to play with.
just looked, you have a delta 44. should be possible.
* disregard if already done =)
Jun 17, 2005 11:13 am Yeah, I was just thinking that myself...it's not whats full and whats not, it's also the progression of gain staging through the entire signal chain.
ZX6R1033PerdidoMember
Since: Dec 15, 2004
Jun 17, 2005 11:13 am Actually, pjk, I havent tried that yet. That is my next step, and hopefully it wont bring up the noise floor.
Db... look at pjk's quote. There is absolutly positivly NO physical way to re-record with the signal any hotter than it already is.
Jun 17, 2005 11:16 am There has to be, you HAVE to be missing something in the gain staging, or some of your gear is set to -10 and not +4, or something like that. There is no way that the max you can record is -18 db or less...if that is the case, you have some faulty gear.
You are clearly missing something in gear set up or gain staging...you have to be...it just does not make sense.
ZX6R1033PerdidoMember
Since: Dec 15, 2004
Jun 17, 2005 11:24 am I thought the same thing, but when I am recording with distortion (V-amp onboard effects) I leave the V-amp at 3/4 volume, and the mixer at 1/3, and quite often, I am still recording too hot. If I had faulty gear, that wouldnt happen.
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Jun 17, 2005 11:27 am Does your v-amp have volume setting for each individual preset? If so, then is your clean preset turned down, or set to a lower input or output level than your distorted patch?
Also, on your distorted patch, is there a compression effect on there with the input or output gain turned up?
Actually, check the in and out levels on each and every effect you have on both patches and make sure that one or the other isn't set to attenuate or amplify the signal.
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Jun 17, 2005 11:28 am I had this same issue (I think). One channel was very low compared to the others. I had always boosted the levels afterwards but this of course DID raise the noise floor. I did this until I corrected the problem. For me the solution was to change the hardware settings on the Delta. I can't remember which one I changed it to (I'm on a different PC now so I can't check). From what I remember there were 3 settings to choose from, +4, Consumer and -10. Anyways, changing these settings fixed a similar problem that I was having.
ZX6R1033PerdidoMember
Since: Dec 15, 2004
Jun 17, 2005 11:50 am when you changed the settings, did it raise the noise floor?
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Jun 17, 2005 11:59 am No, it actually seemed to lower it. I'll check tonight when I get home to see exactly what the levels were at before and after.
Jun 17, 2005 02:14 pm I have encountered issue like this as well. For me, It was a somewhat over use of compression makeup gain. The signal in my track meter was fine, but it was sounding distorted. I found that I was peaking the output within the compressor plugin. Once I dialed that down a bit, everything was clean. I imagine this same problem could happen with other plugin types as well.
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Jun 17, 2005 02:39 pm PhilthyOne, that's kind of what I was referring to above, only for the effects in the V-amp itself instead of the in/out volumes on VST effects.
Jun 18, 2005 12:07 pm yeah this is definately a gain staging issue.....you should leave your mixer at UNITY gain when tracking....
