Odd clicks/pops in multitrack recording (Cooledit/Cubase/Etc) PLEASE HELP!

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Member Since: May 05, 2005

Hi, I need help! I've tried everything and no cigar.

Here's what happens. I record one track and it's near perfect without clicks/pops. Then as I lay down another track, it becomes slightly distorted with clicks/pops. As another track is recorded, it is more distorted with clicks/pops. And it just gets worse as the lengths and amounts of tracks increase. I'm guessing it could be a buffer thing but I've never had this problem before. I just recently got a new computer and it's better than my old one that could easily handle this.

Please, if you could help me in any way, e-mail me or look me up on msn and I can even send you samples ([email protected])

Thanks in advance!

Arnaud

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Member
Since: May 05, 2005


May 05, 2005 02:50 am

Pentium 4 3.0 775
1gb
80gb hdd
maudio delta audiophile 2496 / sb live
behringer ub1002 mixer
behringer ultra g active di box

Also, this issue is evident in both sound cards.

Hello!
Member
Since: Jan 12, 2004


May 05, 2005 03:13 am

Hi Arnaud

First off, welcome to HRC.

Second up, posting the same question twice, at exactly the same time, with 2 bumps is a little lame. I have deleted the duplicate post for this reason...

The time you have posted is 2.50am in the US and the only reason Im gettin it now is cause Im the UK. Please dont double post and give more than 34 mins before ya go bumpin.

Moving on to your question, it sounds like buffer latency to me which has been covered in this thread - www.homerecordingconnecti...5805&frm=5. Check it out and see if helps...its most likely this. You may also wanna check how your cards are set up - the 24/96 is a great card, the blaster is surely not meant for recording of any serious nature. Ensure there is no contention there i.e. IRQ Sharing etc.

OK, good luck.

Coco.

Member
Since: May 05, 2005


May 05, 2005 12:16 pm

Sorry about that. I figured I posted in the wrong forum at first so I decided to post in the write one. Then I thought I should give you guys my specs so that you have a better idea of my setup. Sorry, it won't happen again! :)

Hello!
Member
Since: Jan 12, 2004


May 05, 2005 12:21 pm

Nae worries..

As I say, try the latency / buffers first off. That may help. Then, if not, come back and tell us what happened.

Ye may also wanna check all IRQ's as they are often the cause of pops and clicks. If your sound card shares one (some can - mine does but many cant), then it will be fighting for CPU resource - this equals bad for recording audio!!

Good luck.

Coco.

Member
Since: May 05, 2005


May 05, 2005 12:44 pm

I'm sort of new at this so can you tell me where I would go to change the latency/buffer settings? Because it doesn't seem to do anything in Cooledit or Cubase. If you can direct me to some sort of guide, that'd be perfect. I've tried what I know so far and it still didn't solve my problem.

I took screenshots of the waves up close in cooledit. These clicks/pops get worse as I record more tracks


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y193/Domar/clickpop.gif


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y193/Domar/clickpop2.gif




Also, switching to Standard PC didn't work either.

The soundcard is IRQ 17

Member
Since: May 05, 2005


May 05, 2005 09:39 pm

Ok, I've done more tests and it seems it's worse as I increase the bitrate. So it's surely a buffer/irq/pci latency problem I'm guessing.

Is there any good programs out there to check/modify the settings on my computer? I'm guessing the problem lies with my motherboard configurations.

Asus P5GD1

If anyone has anything else they could post to help me, that'd be great. But the way things are going, I think I'm in the right path at least.

Thanks!

Member
Since: May 05, 2005


May 06, 2005 05:47 pm

Nothing? :(

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 06, 2005 05:54 pm

OK, well, my first thought is wondering which drivertype you are using. From experience I will say that in my case, the ASIO driver worked much better than the WDM driver with the Audiophile. Given the specs of the computer you shouldn't have these problems. Also, go to www.m-audio.com and get the latest drivers, as well as the latest for the SB...though I don't recommend you use that card for anything related to recording as long as you have the Audiophile.

Also, take note of how many other apps you have running in the background, such as anti-virus apps, instant messengers, spyware blockers, firewalls and such junk. The fewer the better, though, given your specs it shouldn't have huge impact unless you've got a bunch running.

jimmie neutron
Member
Since: Feb 14, 2005


May 07, 2005 07:02 am

I think (scary, ain't it?) one thing to do (2 things?) would be to un-install both sound cards, leave the 2nd one out (or disabled, if onboard), then re-install the Delta. Make sure it's functioning as intended and update it. See if you aren't better off. Be sure you don't have any IRQ conflicts. THEN, reinstall the 2nd card, avoiding conflicts, etc. However, dB's sage advise is NOT to be ignored.

Member
Since: May 05, 2005


May 07, 2005 01:12 pm

I've tried everything but IRQ settings. And like dB says, I shouldn't be having problems as my computer is fast. I have barely anything taking up resources. (208mb from 1040mb) I've formatted twice and re-installed windows pro. I even removed one HDD and the SB live. And right now my computer is running the critical basics and it's still getting clicks/pops. I e-mailed ASUS on how I could change the IRQ settings and asked which pci slot would be best for my sound recording and all that jazz. So, hopefully they can help me out.

Or, it's my video card taking too much priority. It's a Radeon x700. If anyone knows of any problems with it, please let me know.

Also, another quick question. Is it normal for my speakers to make a sound when my computer turns off? It seems that the audiophile releases energy to the speakers to make a weird "powering off" sound. Like "EEEHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhuuhhh....." if that makes any sense. HAHA

Let me know.

Member
Since: May 05, 2005


May 07, 2005 05:47 pm

This sound problem might be the death of my solo career

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


May 07, 2005 10:31 pm

Is you video card a PCI card by chance? That may be causing you some headache their if the 2 cards are too close to each other.

Member
Since: May 05, 2005


May 08, 2005 06:11 am

I have a PCI Express x16 graphics card. Oh oh.

jimmie neutron
Member
Since: Feb 14, 2005


May 08, 2005 10:29 am

Nah, you're fine with that. You can, however, adjust the "threads" (or whatever they call it) for the PCI-X, also. Your owner's manual for the board (probably on the Install CD-ROM) should have all kinna information on the details of set-up. That's one thing that ASUS hadn't skimped on yet (as far as I know). The Intel chipset has a rather good implimentation of SATA, even, which you have to watch out for on other boards (VIA and those with the "Sil" controller chip). But yeah, your vid card slot probably defaults to a high value on the regular PCI bus, and the PCI-X. That way, ATI looks "better" than GeForce on the "benchmarks"!

Member
Since: May 05, 2005


May 08, 2005 03:17 pm

The manual and install CD-ROM have nothing on it that I haven't tried. I did some tests again today and when I record, the CPU usage is at like 4-6%. I'm still waiting for ASUS to e-mail me back, hopefully they'll have a solution. Even trying to mess around with latency and buffer settings failed. Either I get lots of clicks/pops or just a bit. Either way they're still very noticeable. Messing around with wave cache did nothing either. I switched PCI slots and disabled my netword adapter with no avail. What else could I do? It seems I should just get a better motherboard or something cause I can't change any settings on it.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


May 08, 2005 05:10 pm

Ya, I dont know what to tell ya there. It seems as though youve tried almost all the main things as to get it straight. But there is gotta be something that is causing it to give ya that type of performance issues.

Member
Since: May 05, 2005


May 08, 2005 05:33 pm

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y193/Domar/clickpop3.gif



Look how evil that looks.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


May 08, 2005 08:00 pm

Are you using anything else in your signal chain that might be causing this?

And do the spikes always go down from a peek like that, or are they random sometimes?

jimmie neutron
Member
Since: Feb 14, 2005


May 08, 2005 08:57 pm

I just noticed something way up near the start of this thread: You've got 2 sound cards in your box. Uninstall the lot. Start with the software, then the hardware. You might even consider re-installing Windows. Get rid of all signs of the sound cards. If you've got onboard audio, be sure and disable that, including the game port. Once you're sure you're "fresh", install your 2496 BY THE BOOK. Get it working and run it thru every test you can come up with. You SHOULD NOT have this problem. Once you've got the 2496 going, take a "picture" of your setup with Ghost or Windows Restore (or some such), THEN you could consider installing the 2nd card and see what happens. Don't forget, tho, your SB card will want to install all kinds of software that wants to hijack your computer...

Member
Since: May 05, 2005


May 08, 2005 09:26 pm

I've done that too. HEHE and still no cigar.

And great, it's doing it on playback now.

Member
Since: May 05, 2005


May 08, 2005 10:07 pm

I just tried lowering my resolution. I should even try to maybe un-install Solitaire. :P

I think there's something wrong with my motherboard, I've tried everything.

jimmie neutron
Member
Since: Feb 14, 2005


May 09, 2005 08:46 am

OK, noise when you shut down, normal, to a point. Turn your power amps off 1st, mixers etc. next, unplug headphones, shut-down computer. Have you uninstalled the M-Audio and used just the SB Live? Do you get clicks & pops when you add more tracks? Have you updated your motherboard BIOS to the latest? It has several updates concerning SATA & PCI-X. Is your HD on an IDE channel, or SATA? It sounds like ASUS has had some problems with the P5GD1 model board with ATI video cards (specifically the X300) and some others. Was this one of the 1st boards out that supported PCI-Xpress & SATA? Are you sure your memory sticks are any good? Do your sound cards share an interrupt with anything? Does your WinXP install have at least SP1 installed? Visit:

www.musicxp.net/
AND
www.pcaudiolabs.com/

if you haven't already. Also, just found on the M-Audio site that all Delta series soundcards HAVE to use an interrupt number lower than 15! Quote:

"Although M-Audio’s Delta Series PCI cards have been designed to be fully compliant with ACPI IRQ management and ACPI usually works well for the most common tasks, the dynamic management of IRQs may not work as well as if a device has a permanent static IRQ for itself without ever having to share it - especially when dealing with high volumes of data or operating close to the system's maximum capabilities. For this reason, it is important that the M-Audio Delta PCI card has it's own unique IRQ below the number 15."

Wow. It does make sense, tho. (Still running into 8088 barricades!) I suppose this would apply to all "upper-end" PCI sound cards. When PCI first came out way back when, I never thought I'd see the day when it would be a limiting factor... The CPU is singing "Everybody wants me..." Go to:

www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.kbase

and select your card and OS. Leave the search term blank and you should get about 60+ hits in their knowledge base. A few are *very* interesting.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 09, 2005 09:17 am

actually, I would think that mentality should apply to all high-bandwidth devices such as pro-level audio cards and video cards. If I have ever had to share IRQ's, I always try to share low-resource devices such as modems, network adapters and crap like that in order to leave free IRQ's for my audio and video cards.

The first thing I typically do, if possible, is disable ACPI. It's not ACPI that is generally the cause of problems, but equipment manufacturers inability to learn to deal with it...or so I have heard.

Member
Since: May 05, 2005


May 09, 2005 10:58 am

I switched to Standard PC.

IRQ 10 - Intel(r) 82801FB/FBM PCI Express root port
IRQ 10 - Marvel Yukon 88E8053 PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet
IRQ 10 - M-Audio Delta Audiophile.

Interesting, but how do I get rid of this? This is mostlikely what's causing the problem.

jimmie neutron
Member
Since: Feb 14, 2005


May 09, 2005 02:19 pm

Now you're at the interesting part. Some BIOSs let you manually assign interrupts to particular PCI slots. Others do not. Some cards will take an assignment from the Windows "Resources" page under device manager. Others do not. Some cards have a software configuration utility. Most do not. Sometimes, changing the slot your card is in will change it's interrupt. It depends upon your motherboard and BIOS and peripherals.

Now, I'm working from memory here, so forgive me if I goof, but: right-click My Computer, left-click Manage, then Device Manager. Select your Audiophile, click on Properties, then the Resources tab. From that, you're on your own, 'cause I can't remember for sure, but; there should be something like a check-box for "Use Automatic Settings", or something to that effect. Once that's un-checked, there should be a button to Change Settings, or something of that sort. You need an unshared interrupt, which will be difficult to find. This does not always work and sometimes you end up right back at the same interrupt, no matter what you do. It may be easier to move or disable the other devices. The network adapter is easy. Just disable it and don't do networking while doing audio. The PCI Express root port is a different story. That may not like being moved either, and may render the computer useless if it is moved (nothing can find it, and "it's supposed to be right here...somewhere..."). More research is definitely called for on your part:

www.soundonsound.com/sos/...usician0503.asp
www.tascamgiga.com/pdf/optimizing-xp-and-2k.pdf

You'll need Acrobat Reader for the 2nd one. It's enough to put you to sleep if you try to read it all, but some important stuff in them thar hills of data...

Member
Since: May 05, 2005


May 19, 2005 12:24 am

This is so annoying. I will just pour some good ol' gasoline on this thing and see if it CRACKLES some more.

jimmie neutron
Member
Since: Feb 14, 2005


May 19, 2005 12:48 am

Your BIOS is now "managing" your interrupts. See if you don't have the option to assign irq "slots" yourself in the BIOS, or try moving your audio card to different slots (again? yes, again). Also, I've recently discovered that some of the Intel chipset boards use the Sil 3114 SATA chip in order to "easily" add more SATA ports. These boards have the same issues as early implimentations of SATA do. They hog the PCI bus. As for going to "Standard PC", are you using XP or Win2K? No matter, really; just curious. But what I've been reading up on my EMU 1820M setup, I'll most likely be stuck with re-installing Win2K and choosing "Standard PC" at the beginning of install. Oh boy. But I'm going to try a few tricks 1st: 1. Page File set to "Custom Size" 1 1/2 to 2 times the size of installed ram. 2. In the same area, setting the preference for "Background Services" and not "Programs" 3. Hardware Profile with a barebones, nuthen butt awdioh profile, and one with the other stuff. Crossin' my tootsies.

jimmie neutron
Member
Since: Feb 14, 2005


May 19, 2005 12:54 am

Some of the above was discovered at:

dmzweb3.europe.creative.c...Kb=creative_emu

this link may or may not work (it did for me!), 'cause of its length, but go to www.emu.com/ and click on "Support", "Knowledge Base", "Desktop Products", "Digital Audio Systems", "1820M", then type in "ACPI" as a search term, and it should give you a "Setting up your PC for Emulator X Studio" link (above). It's mostly basic stuff, similar to other sites' info...

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