Yamaha PSR-172 or PSR-273

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Cheese
Member Since: Jul 21, 2004

I have been looking at these keyboards lately. They offer pretty much the basic needs I am looking for. However, there is about a $50 difference between the 2 on Ebay. Has anyone every used either of these models or both? If so, how is the quality? I was testing a PSR-273 at Best Buy and it sounded fine. I was wondering if the PSR-172 has the same sound quality, but just not as many options.

I have researched the yamaha site and online reviews (harmony). I found somewhat better reviews for the newer model, but not that much of a difference.

any info would help. thanks.

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Jack of all trades master of ___
Member
Since: May 28, 2004


Mar 21, 2005 05:48 pm

I guess it would be cool if you described what your use of this board would be...I mean you probably won't find too much "quality" in the sounds as you would a nice mid-pro level quality keyboard...Obviously...

A story for you:

My buddy had Yamaha PSR-282 which is the first board I started recording stuff off of...Well, even tho I knew nothing about playing the keys, 4 months later I ended up getting a Korg Triton LE which at the time was about $1400...Granted its the only piece I financed and is long paid off but the Yamaha was noisy, it produced a noisy hiss and it was simply unbalanced...But I was doing rap at tha time which is all board based these days...so quality of the board has to be up there...

If you just want to add some piano hits or hardly audible strings in a mix, it should be cool for that...Personally I would wait and save for one of better quality...

But let me note that this may fall into the category of "suggesting better gear for a solution", which I agree is a lame take...But I also know first hand, that people can't drop hundreds or thousands on a board and most likely they just want to get something in their studio so it has more function to it. BUT in my situations I find myself in the same spot I was 3 months down the road...looking for a higher quality pice to improve my product...

I hope I am not busting your bubble in any way...I guess I have been down the road in the Yamaha-PSR___ category and I didn't really enjoy it, but if you see it fits...Take your pick, they both have the same sound engine I would believe...

Happy Recording...
-J


Dork
Member
Since: Jul 25, 2004


Mar 21, 2005 06:44 pm

I am actually using a PSR-273. Although it is just being used as a very basic MIDI keyboard. Not using the stock sounds, but rather using it with a soft synth. I don't believe the other model you mentioned has MIDI capability.

BUT, along the same lines, I already had it when I began recording at home. For a similar price, you could get a fully functional MIDI keyboard from M-Audio and do the same thing with more functionality. I plan on doing that when the need for more features comes about.

ILLbino - one of WA's finest
Member
Since: Feb 10, 2004


Mar 21, 2005 09:18 pm

I had a PSR-530 (or something close to that). It works okay for a MIDI controller, but its definitely not a professional keyboard. It's more designed for beginning pianists. Your better off going with a simple MIDI controller (like a M-Audio Keystation 49e).

Jack of all trades master of ___
Member
Since: May 28, 2004


Mar 21, 2005 10:18 pm

Yeah I forgot to mention that...If it does have MIDI ports (which I know it does) it could be used with any MIDI software that produces sound data with much more quality...

I dont know MIDI but would it work with a program like Digital Performer or Sampletank???

Cheese
Member
Since: Jul 21, 2004


Mar 22, 2005 08:45 am

Hi guys, thanks for your responses.

Well, with regards to a synth I have a MicroKorg which I use all the time for playing and recording.

"If you just want to add some piano hits or hardly audible strings in a mix, it should be cool for that..."
-That is exactly what I need it for. I want some sweet grand piano, organs and strings on my album.

" For a similar price, you could get a fully functional MIDI keyboard from M-Audio and do the same thing with more functionality."
-Ya, I was looking @ some M-Audio's. Primarily, Radium 49. However, I'm not quite sure exactly how it works (etc. What samples or instruments does the board use? Is it a keyboard that takes samples from the computer and collaberates with the board? If it does need software, does it come with it?)

If someone could help with the M-Audio, I'd really appreciate it. I don't have a large budget, so please bare that in mind. Thanks.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 22, 2005 08:47 am

The Radium 49 has no built in samples or instruments. Any USB controller like the Radium will work with most any VSTi or DXi instrument using the samples of that instrument...all a controller does is send MIDI signals to something else to actually produce the audio.

Cheese
Member
Since: Jul 21, 2004


Mar 22, 2005 09:39 am

ahhhhhhhh, ok.

Well, I don't have any plug-in software like VSTi.

dB, I apologize if I seem "confused" or ask the same questions over and over again. Honestly, I am having a difficult time grasping these type of things. I don't know much and would like to learn more, and I do appreciate your help. I guess at time I feel intimidated because everyone on here knows a lot more than myself. If you could clear up a few things and help me finally understand all of this, it would be much appreciated.

1 - I want to have piano, strings, organs and violins on my album. Which keyboard would be decent for this? You mentioned computer software samplers in the past, but I would rather play the parts myself instead of looping. However, if I could save money in any way and use my MicroKorg to take advantage of software samples, that would be good as well.

2 - Are plug-ins like VSTi only used for sound samples, or do they have other functions?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 22, 2005 09:44 am

OK, first, don't apologize, some of this **** confuses me too...it's completely understandable...odds are there is something that you know a great deal more about than any of us...everyone has theirs, ya know?

To get what you want, you are on the right track, but, being PC based, it won't be a matter of buying a keyboard...you will also want a softsynth of some sort to get the sounds you want.

There are a lot of people here that know more about this subject than me, I am a caveman in this area, but I like Project5 and Absynth 3 for synths, Dyad from PowerFX is also a good option.

What you need is a keyboard/controller to send the data to the computer, and a softsynth to turn that MIDI data into sound samples. There are LOADS of free softsynths around the internet as well. I like the softsynth route because if you think of a new sound you want to use, you don't need a new keyboard or sound maolue, just a new set of samples for your softsynth...

Cheese
Member
Since: Jul 21, 2004


Mar 22, 2005 09:57 am

Ok, now it's starting to make sense.

Are some of these "softsynth" boards like Radium 49? If so, what others are cheap but work well? I don't need a super-master keyboard, as I am still new to this.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 22, 2005 09:58 am

no, softsynths are all software. you only see them on your screen. Controllers like the Radium just play thru the softsynth and use the softsynth to produce the sound on the computer.

Cheese
Member
Since: Jul 21, 2004


Mar 22, 2005 10:04 am

To use these softsynths, do you need a MIDI controller or not? If not, what other devices can be used to use the samples?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 22, 2005 10:04 am

no, you can program it via step time, but in order to "play" it you need a controller...

Cheese
Member
Since: Jul 21, 2004


Mar 22, 2005 10:12 am

I was doing some research on Ebay. I only have a trial version of Cubase SX, so I would eventually need to purchase the spftware for rights. I've heard some good things about this item:

cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI....ssPageName=WDVW

That seems to be a good price. The program itself is worth that price, plus I get a USB controller interface. Is this something I would look into purchasing?

Cheese
Member
Since: Jul 21, 2004


Mar 22, 2005 10:22 am

I forgot to mention, I have a crappy *** mixer. I was listening to some of my music yesterday with headphones, and you could tell the recorded audio had buzzing. I am sure this is because I don't use a compressor. Would the above device be good for recording? I have a Behringer Eurorack UB802 at the moment.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 22, 2005 10:25 am

Yeah, that device gets great reviews, and comes with software as well..or does in retail sales anyway.

The buzzing may not have anything to do with a compressor or not...compressors do nothing for noise reduction, the buzz could be from a plethora of places.

Cheese
Member
Since: Jul 21, 2004


Mar 22, 2005 10:31 am

Well, it's not really a buzzing noise. It's more that the audio tracks I recorded aren't so clear when I listen to them with headphones. When I listen to songs/tracks on speakers, they seem fine and clear. I think the track levels are too high in certain places because I've had that problem in the past.

One more question for today. I've been recording Bass guitar and noticed its sometimes difficult to make the bass have a full sound without the track level getting too "load" (causing the overall track level to hit the colour "red"). Can you suggest anything with regards to levels when recording bass?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 22, 2005 10:33 am

compression and EQ, bass guitars two best friends...

of course, that depends on how your are recording it and how old the strings are, old bass strings can make a big ol' boomy, fat sound.

Cheese
Member
Since: Jul 21, 2004


Mar 22, 2005 10:42 am

My friend that records with me always buys new strings as soon as he notices they're loosing their "love".

I will take an item at a time. I need to save a few bucks for a Radium 49 and that hardware interface.

Thanks for all your help.

Cheese
Member
Since: Jul 21, 2004


Mar 22, 2005 11:56 am

cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI....me=STRK:MEWA:IT

I actually found a decent deal here. I'm going to keep a close look tonight.

Cheese
Member
Since: Jul 21, 2004


Mar 23, 2005 03:19 pm

There is one thing I am still confused on with these MIDI controllers. When using these softsynth programs on the computer:

How can what is being played on the controller be recorded on the recording software if the softsynth is being run at the same time?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 23, 2005 03:20 pm

It records the MIDI data of what you are playing, then when playing it back, it plays the MIDI data thru that same softsynth in your tracking app.

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Mar 23, 2005 03:22 pm

I think it's recording the midi data, not the actual sound you hear. Then, it's also playing the synth sounds for you to hear at the same time, in a monitoring type function. When you're done, you only have midi data stored in the file, which you can play back through any synth, or midi instrument, or GM or whatever.

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Mar 23, 2005 03:22 pm

oop, stepped on again. =)

Cheese
Member
Since: Jul 21, 2004


Mar 23, 2005 03:30 pm

So, is the only difference between a midi contoller and keyboard (ie korg triton) is your sounds/samples play off software rather than off the keyboard itself?

Would you suggest I save up for something like a Triton or just go cheaper with a MIDI?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 23, 2005 03:38 pm

I can't suggest anything, I can say that I prefer the controller/MIDI route because it's cheaper and easier to use the keyboard will new sounds, just need new samples, easy to do. With the triton (or whatever) you could likely use the sounds built in to it AND use softsynths via a MIDI connection to your PC.

I think it would be silly to take the audio outs of your a synth, like the triton and recordit as audio, cuz then editing is harder, I would still record it as MIDI, than on playback ship it back out to the triton and run the audio outs into your monitoring system...

Cheese
Member
Since: Jul 21, 2004


Mar 23, 2005 03:46 pm

I see, that makes sense.

So the quality of MIDI controller vs a keyboard (triton) using the same samples is no different correct?

Is the quality of MIDI better than analog?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 23, 2005 03:48 pm

yes, it's the quality of the samples, as a whole, MIDI is MIDI...though (I'll regret bringing this up) some cheap controllers do not support certain MIDI transmission, but don't owrry about that, the ones you are looking at are fine.

MIDI and analog are different, no quality comparison to be had...recording it as MIDI just makes it easier to edit through the composing process.

Cheese
Member
Since: Jul 21, 2004


Mar 23, 2005 03:53 pm

dB you're helping out a lot, thanks so much.

So, let me clear this up:

When using a MIDI controller, I will use softsynth software (which is free) to feed the samples to my MIDI controller. From there, I can play the keys using these samples from the software. When I want to finally record, I will have my softsynth software running, which is feeding the samples to my controller (MIDI IN to controller), inturn where what I am playing is being "read" by the recording software (MIDI OUT to mixer or soundcard) and records what I am playing like any other keyboard. hehe, hope this makes sense. is this correct?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 23, 2005 03:59 pm

Notes:

"When using a MIDI controller, I will use softsynth software (which is free) (which CAN be free, or, can cost HUNDREDS, both are available) to feed the samples to my MIDI controller Your controller feeds MIDI data to the computer, data goes one way. From there, I can play the keys using these samples from the software. When I want to finally record, I will have my softsynth software running, which is feeding the samples to my controller again, the controller does the feeding, the softsynth eats (MIDI IN to controller) controller MIDI out to computer MIDI IN, inturn where what I am playing is being "read" by the recording software (MIDI OUT to mixer or soundcard) and records what I am playing like any other keyboard. hehe, hope this makes sense. is this correct?"

Cheese
Member
Since: Jul 21, 2004


Mar 23, 2005 04:09 pm

Ok wait,

the softsynth "eats" what the MIDI controller is feeding it. Well then where are these samples coming from? Ok, this is the way I'm looking at this, please bare with me.

A. Softsynth gives MIDI controller samples (MIDI out computer, MIDI IN controller)

B. controller uses these samples from softsynth, and directs these sounds back to the pc (MIDI Out controller, MIDI in computer)

|____softsynth giving samples___>>|
cpu|\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\|controller
|\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\|
|<<___samples back to pc for rec__|

Cheese
Member
Since: Jul 21, 2004


Mar 23, 2005 04:10 pm

my picture isnt working...dammit

god, i feel dumb right now...

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 23, 2005 04:13 pm

no.

Your controller feeds the MIDI data to the computer, the computer application (Cubase, Cakewalk, whatever) take that MIDI data and do with it what you tell it to, in this case, send the data to a softsynth, the softsynth reproduces the sound based on the parameters you set in it, such as which sample to use to create the audio...

The softsnyth gives nothing to the controller...it's the other way...

Cheese
Member
Since: Jul 21, 2004


Mar 23, 2005 04:17 pm

ok, now i understand.

thank you :)

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Mar 23, 2005 11:03 pm

dB, this thread just got me started on a second version of the midi article. I can see the need for it is getting bigger, and needs more depth then the first one.

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


Mar 23, 2005 11:40 pm

Let's try breaking it down like this.

The keyboard (and I mean only the keys) sends data signals relating to only the key pressed to the sound module. In the sound module you assign a sound to that physical key. A drum hit, a note from a string, a piano note, etc. The sound module 'plays' the assigned sample per how the key is hit, held, etc.

In a synth like the Korg Triton the keyboard and sound module are both in the physical unit. So the unit produces actual sound output.

In a midi controller you get only the keyboard. No sound module. A standard computer can be used as a sound module with the right software. This is what dB is talking about. Connecting your midi controller (keyboard, again only keys) to your computer and using the computer as a sound module.


In reality the Korg Triton and other synths are midi controllers and computers made to look like a keyboard. They have digital sound modules, recorders, effects units, drum machines, (all computer generated sounds) in the unit. Obviously you use buttons and wheels instead of a mouse to program them, but they are still a computer.

Cheese
Member
Since: Jul 21, 2004


Mar 24, 2005 08:57 am

Walt, thanks for further details. ya, I got the idea after dB explained, and plus when I looked at the connection grid on m-audio's site, i assumed these softsynths are sound modules.

I am looking further into what keyboard I would like. The problem I realized is I'm not only recording at home. A lot of times I go to my GF's house for the weekend(she lives an hour away) or my friend that I record with and I rent out jam space. I wouldn't want to lug my whole PC around for this sort of reason.

However, I will look into more boards and prices. If I can pick up a MIDI controller and sound module (physical hardware) for cheap, I may take this route.

Thanks guys

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Mar 24, 2005 09:42 am

I've been looking into this route as well chex, I need something to play live, with somewhat decent built in sounds, as I don't want to take my laptop into a bar. But I also want to be able to use it as a midi controller for when I'm in the studio. I've started a thread a few weeks ago, and have some ideas, but they're pretty pricey. I'm thinking I'll be taking a trip to a Guitar Center, or similar to get some hands-on experience with some keyboards to see what they sound like and how they feel. Think around 500 and up (that's US$). Less for used, on ebay, etc.

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