Who follows music theory?

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Administrator Since: Apr 03, 2002

How many peeps around here actually have music theory and structure in their minds when writing, what key they are in and things like that?

I know I do, that isn't saying I let it control my decision making process, but it is something I am always aware of...how about you?

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An outburst for perfection
Member
Since: Dec 11, 2002


Dec 16, 2002 11:07 am

Up until a few months ago I'd say never.
I don't like to plan a chord structure before I start playing and singing as I feel it limits you in some ways. I'm more spontaneous and I think not knowing where you're off to next is exciting and you can get some very unexpected results.
Most of my best songs have come out using this method.
Normally my theory comes into light later on.
I also find that when doing Lead Guitar solos or Bass lines it's sometimes best to sing it instead of actually playing it and then work around the Lalala's!!!
I've never been able to plan a good song, to sit down and say "I'm going to write a great song now" ...it just happens, you probably know the feeling? Some days nothing comes together and then from out of nowhere you know you're onto a winner!!

The fat one always watches us.
Member
Since: Nov 08, 2002


Dec 16, 2002 11:40 am

No theory. don't really worry about keys, modes, pitch thingys or what ever. I don't really understand much about music math, and im sure it shows but id like to think i know "right" or "wrong" when i hear it. it would save me time in the long run if i did really understand those things. i wouldnt have to try out stuff. i could narrow things down just my using magic music math. but that seems hard, cold, unjust and dare i say...void of creativity.
in conclusion- i dont use theory cause i dont understand it

Member
Since: Apr 14, 2002


Dec 16, 2002 12:10 pm

I took two semesters of it, but I don`t claim to understand it. Somehow I passed that class...

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Dec 16, 2002 12:10 pm

Maybe I should restate how I use theory, as I don't plan a structure with it, however, when I stumble across a nice, catchy progression, I do then dissect the chord and try to determine what key it is in and then use that to give me a "jumping off point" to try to figure out where the rest of the song could go from there...that is a more accurate explaination of how I use it, and while I don't always follow it, knowing the key, and therefore the chords that should logically work with it makes it a little easier to find the chords that may be used.

Understanding it, even as little as I do, has helped explain to me why some things work and some things don't...most of it is really just common sense...er, sorta...and most songs do follow theory to some degree even if it is unintentional, since generally it sounds better so even the un-theorized musician will choose chords that sound right together, even if they don't know why.

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


Dec 16, 2002 12:31 pm

Maybe it's because I have been accomponing (sp) for so long on bass, but it is hard for me not to think in terms of music theory. I have trained myself to recognize progressions, and probable "next" chord roots to predict the movement of a song. From accordian (many moons ago) believe it or not, I have trained my ear to recognize chord structures and find myself thinking ok heres the turn around, or bridge, or transition, as we move from a minor 3rd into a 7th etc. The disonance is recognizable. To sit and mathamaticly formulate a song, no. But then I have great difficulty writing, or creating music.

Member
Since: Dec 14, 2002


Dec 16, 2002 11:59 pm

This opinion is biased, and I am NOT trying to come off as a theory snob..having stated that, theory is all important when I write. I use it to determine key (or tonal center), how to develop melodic ideas, determine form, proportion, structure, rythm, how the peice eveolves through time, etc. Every bit of theory is one more bullet in your gun when it's time to shoot. Trying to write/play music without theory is like trying to write/read a novel without any understanding of language. Of course, there are things you learn by hearing enough music; practiced or acquired knowledge from being around music enough is a given. But without understanding the theory behind it, your acquired knowledge is very limited; you're just shooting darts in the dark. Sometimes you'll hit, most times you won't. To just snub your nose at theory for whatever reason is just lazy. Theory is language; it's the language of music. Without it you are musically illiterate. You are forever stuck with what you THINK you know, and if you don't at least know that one thing real well, you are lost. Everyone who calls himself a musician should at least know the fundamentals; major/minor scales, simple progressions (I IV V I), and the circle of fifths. Great music is written all the time by people who don't have a firm grasp of theory...blues, old country, etc... but everyone of those guys knew their scales, knew their keys, knew I IV V I...and think of what could of been if they had known more. Of course, if all you want to write is 'oops, I did it again'..then run from theory as fast as you can!!

Help I'm stuck in Utah!!!!!!!!!
Member
Since: Dec 10, 2002


Dec 17, 2002 12:40 am

I have no Theory background not to say that I don't want it. Maybe I use theory and don't even know it? Where can I get Some info on theory without taking college classes?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Dec 17, 2002 05:23 am

Hey J SCOTT, pick up a theory book and any music store, personally, tho not well trained in it, I do find it fascinating.

Help I'm stuck in Utah!!!!!!!!!
Member
Since: Dec 10, 2002


Dec 17, 2002 05:30 am

dB,
I am stationed in Germany (Air Force) and don't have much of a selection on Publications in English. The book stores we have on base don't have anything on theory. Would Musicians Friend have this?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Dec 17, 2002 06:54 am

Maybe, but amazon.com would as well, I'll look some up in the next day or two...

Help I'm stuck in Utah!!!!!!!!!
Member
Since: Dec 10, 2002


Dec 17, 2002 07:23 am

Thanks again dB.

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


Dec 17, 2002 08:44 am

Boarder's books have a ton. For folks local, go to the music store that works with local schools. They usually have a very good librarian on staff that you can talk to to get just the right liturature. Another avenue is to pull up college course descriptions. Sometimes you can call the associated book store and get the name of the text used for the class. It can be a little tricky. There are a lot of books out there and it really helps to look them over first if you can. Last time I looked there was a real push on modal theory.

Contributor
Since: Sep 09, 2002


Dec 17, 2002 11:52 pm

hi j.scott, i'm guessing by your email addy you're a 6 stringer? guitar is my first instrument closely followed by bass, and most of the theory i've come to understand i've picked up off of guitar websites. with guitar communities and tablature and instructional sites like guitar.net and www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Lessons/ just hunt around and expose yourself to the knowledge that's out there. here's another www.cyberfret.com/

Help I'm stuck in Utah!!!!!!!!!
Member
Since: Dec 10, 2002


Dec 18, 2002 04:41 am

Jamie,
Actually I am a 7 stringer now, followed also by bass, then Drums (ironically I have more invested in drums than any other instrument, for it being my weakest instrument. But I will check out these sites thank you,

Member
Since: Nov 24, 2002


Dec 18, 2002 11:55 am

I first started with music theory and continued with it in college.It is one of the most important parts of my music composition process.When I think of music theory I think of all technical aspects of the music.Tonality,key,time signature,etc.But also think of the practical side as well.That being the reading and writing of music.Tabs,aside,I find it a lot easier to work with other musicians if we all read music.Now that's not to say that I don't enjoy and benefit from musicins who don't read music.It's just easier for me to comunicate to those who do sometimes.I also find that a good basis in music theory is essential in the arrangement process.
I have basically two types of songs I compose.Those that come easily and quickly and those that start with a simple phrase that I then have to turn into a song.Theory helps me turn the simple phrase into an entire composition and theoty also helps me arrange both types.
Not being that great on the keyboards,music theory also helps me to know where I want to go next in the composing process instead of fumbling around trying to find it by ear.
Sorry I've droned on,but sometimes when I start talkin bout music.........

Member
Since: Jul 18, 2002


Dec 23, 2002 01:25 am

I honestly don't know how to read music, nor do I know what key I am in, or the chords that make up a given scale. All I know is what sounds good to me. Sometimes I like to purposely throw in a wrong sounding chord or note just to bring a more humanized sound to my projects.
I recently sat in with a great drummer Buddy Miles, and a friend of his on bass. The bass player would tell me these keys and progressions that made up the song we were going to play then we would start playing. Everything was great sounding, and at the end of the session Buddy informed the bassist that I had no clue as to what the guy was talking about and that I was just following the sound. The session sounded great and the bassist still left the studio wondering how I did it. lol. You can check out Buddy on his latest cd 'The Bluesberries'.

David William
Member
Since: Dec 20, 2002


Dec 23, 2002 05:52 pm

This is a topic I'm wrestling with slightly in my mind at the moment. I've been playing/writing for about 4 yrs and apart from learning the very basics about major & minor scales (which chords are in them, etc) I just sort of stumbled along and let my ears guide me. Its only recently I've attempted to learn a little more theory, basically to improve my guitar-playing.
I don't like to think about it when I'm writing and thats why I'm reluctant to get too involved with it. I think music is best kept as a mysterious thing thats just in the air and not thought of as notes on paper, etc...
I have the same dilemna with my voice - knowing I don't sing properly but very reluctant to go to a teacher in case I lose the character.
I'm probably too stubborn about these things but I believe the mistakes and things you do wrong are what help give you a uniqueness and identity.

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