tape compression vs manufactured compression

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over-processed pop hater
Member Since: Sep 28, 2004

Tape automatically compresses your signal a bit. Like I've read about engineers purposely recording the snare into the red so as to generate some natural compression. Does anyone have any data on tape compression that can be translated into manufactured (plugin) compression? Like, hitting +6db on tape would roughly create a -4 reduction at 4:1 with a slow release. Thanks.

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Member
Since: Dec 23, 2003


Nov 05, 2004 07:43 pm

If you have any electronic knowlege you can build one cheap. Here's one:

home3.netcarrier.com/~lxh2/tapesat.html

Of course the best way to get tape compression is to use tape in the first place. However, there are all kinds of analog emulating software out there. I'll let the digital guys take it from there. I'm still an analoger myself.

Freeleance Producer/Engineer/Gtr
Member
Since: Aug 11, 2002


Nov 06, 2004 11:40 pm

no compressor i know of can really mimic tape saturation/compression other than a Distressor, but there are plugins that will do that specifically like Magneto.

There are a few others that will do it also but i'm drawing a blank... guys?

Cone Poker
Member
Since: Apr 07, 2002


Nov 07, 2004 11:32 am

Karetaker -
So that schematic will build an outboard unit to add tape saturation? can I use this will digital audio? IE: Run the outs of my soundcard into the unit, and the outs of that unit into a mixer? That would be an awesome little box to have if I could do that, I'd even make a nice rack mountable case for it

...bringing sexy back
Member
Since: Jul 01, 2002


Nov 07, 2004 12:26 pm

that thing looks cool, think you could build it lokester?

Cone Poker
Member
Since: Apr 07, 2002


Nov 07, 2004 12:44 pm

could I? yes... will I? probably not. I'd like too, but I'm sitting on so many projects right now, and I still haven't found a job so moneys tight. i want to finish my theremin, build a mic pre, build that thingy, and figure out whats wrong with my reverb unit (which I think some idiot spilled soda onto... grrr)

I'll do a price check and see how much it's going to cost me, and see what peices I have laying around, and if it isn't too terribly expensive I may give it a go, just to see how things work out.

...bringing sexy back
Member
Since: Jul 01, 2002


Nov 07, 2004 02:03 pm

you gotta start selling some of this cool stuff man...

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


Nov 07, 2004 02:08 pm

Anohter way to achieve it would be to put a reel to reel in the insert of a board. Drive into the line in's and return signal from the tape monitor if the deck has those capabilities. This way you could adjust your sound as necessary using the deck as an FX. Obviously there would be a delay per head distance on the deck that you would have to deal with. It is a slight deaviation from simply recording the signal and playing it back, but offers a more "real time" solution.

Beyond that there are numerous plugs that offer different degrees of emulation as well as hardwired ckts.

...bringing sexy back
Member
Since: Jul 01, 2002


Nov 07, 2004 02:39 pm

good shout walt!

Cone Poker
Member
Since: Apr 07, 2002


Nov 07, 2004 07:08 pm

Flame - I actually thought about that. My room looks like a mad scientist lives here now from all the computer peices, circuit boards, schematics and such laying around... since I haven't the money to actually finish any of the projects...

Member
Since: Dec 23, 2003


Nov 08, 2004 12:22 pm

That circiut looks like it does to me. I'm not an engineer though. I learned about electronics on my own, so my knowledge is limited. I have a friend who has a degree in electronic engineering. I'll have him take a look at it and see what he has to say. That would be a little bit of nothing to build, so if it looks good to him I'll throw one together, test it and let you know.

Member
Since: Apr 27, 2002


Nov 09, 2004 04:19 pm

loki...how much do you think it would cost to build one of those? like,...how much would it cost (materials + what you would charge for putting it together), cause you dont have a job, i do, i dont have the skills to build one, you do...think about it..

Cone Poker
Member
Since: Apr 07, 2002


Nov 09, 2004 04:27 pm

wontdieinPA - I don't know, I'll go look up the price for the materials and such, It doesn't look that hard to put together so I wouldn't charge that much. Email me at maxamlc@gmail.com and we can talk things out more

Member
Since: Dec 23, 2003


Nov 09, 2004 06:05 pm

Hey Loki.... if you are into that kind of thing, I just bought a really cool book called "Electronic Gadgets for the Evil Genius". There are some pretty cool projects in there.... Some could be deadly of course. There are things in there like: Antigravity Project, Mass Accelerator, Handheld CO2 Gas Laser, Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Generator, etc. I think some of things in that book are illegal to build, but those are the one's that look like the most fun to build.

...bringing sexy back
Member
Since: Jul 01, 2002


Nov 09, 2004 06:52 pm

arnt some of them things impossible?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Nov 09, 2004 06:58 pm

rule number 1 - nothing is impossible

...bringing sexy back
Member
Since: Jul 01, 2002


Nov 09, 2004 07:09 pm

ok, errrrm, improbable then?

Cone Poker
Member
Since: Apr 07, 2002


Nov 09, 2004 10:15 pm

Karetaker - If I had that book I would be the most angry person you would ever meet, simply because i would not have the money to build the cool toys...

my own antigravity chamber...

Member
Since: Apr 27, 2002


Nov 10, 2004 12:24 am

how do you learn how to read/understand and construct using schematics, the whole thing is really interesting considering there are schematics for any thing from mesa-boogie triple rectifiers to UREI compressors...nuts

Member
Since: Dec 23, 2003


Nov 10, 2004 12:59 pm

You can get books at Radio Shack for Electronics. They have a beginning electronics book that's pretty good.... or just pick one up in a bookstore. Schematics are very simple to read and understand once you know what all the symbols are.

Member
Since: Apr 27, 2002


Nov 10, 2004 03:08 pm

do these books also explain things such as how to build using schematics? like what sort of wires/solder to use??

Member
Since: Dec 23, 2003


Nov 11, 2004 11:17 am

I have two books from Radio Shack... the one does go over how to solder and some basic suggestions. Use rosin core solder for electronic components. You can learn it on your own if you put the time into it. However, you can't just buy a couple of books from Radio Shack and expect to be designing circiuts in a couple of weeks. I have a shelf filled with electronic books that I've been reading for years and I still don't know as much as I should. But, if you are just looking to assemble someone elses design you can learn that without a whole lot of effort. Learning those things is just like learning anything else.... it just takes some practice to get good at it.

Member
Since: Dec 23, 2003


Nov 11, 2004 11:21 am

To answer your question Flame....No.

Here is their website if you want to check it out... it's some pretty interesting stuff.

www.amazing1.com/

Bane of All Existence
Member
Since: Mar 27, 2003


Nov 11, 2004 01:18 pm

you can go get a beginning electronics book from your local library.

Cone Poker
Member
Since: Apr 07, 2002


Nov 11, 2004 01:38 pm

yeah libraries rock!

Cause knowledge is power!

Member
Since: Dec 23, 2003


Nov 11, 2004 06:20 pm

Yup....knowledge is power, but only if you can remember it....hehehehe

Cone Poker
Member
Since: Apr 07, 2002


Nov 12, 2004 01:03 am

Alright gang, I have most of the stuff needed to make this unit, but radio shack no longer carries the 1N43A so I am going to have to find something to replace it. This unit is only mono, I am going to adapt it to stereo. So far the cost for the electronics has been about 15 dollars, not including the 1N43A's. I'm going to make a few prototypes this weekend and give them a go, and I'm also going to see if I can't add a mic pre into this so that you can run a mic right into it, get the saturation, and run it out to a board so that I can use this sucker live. That's gonna take a bit more money though

Member
Since: Dec 23, 2003


Nov 12, 2004 05:47 pm

You mean 1N34A

They cross reference to an "ECG 109" or "NTE 109" They are $1.11 each. At least where I bought them which was "Cumberland Electronics" in Harrisburg PA. They have a website but I'm not sure of the URL. The phone number is (717)232-9715. If you have any trouble finding them let let me know. I can get them for you and send them to you if you want.

Another place you can try is Digi-Key
digikey.com

Their phone number is 1-800-DIGI-KEY

...bringing sexy back
Member
Since: Jul 01, 2002


Nov 12, 2004 06:15 pm

ill buy one if ya can make it nicely rack mountable...

Cone Poker
Member
Since: Apr 07, 2002


Nov 12, 2004 06:46 pm

I can make it rack mountable, but it would be a lot of wasted space as the circuit board for these things are tiny. I was just gonna put it in a little steel box or something. heh

Member
Since: Apr 27, 2002


Nov 13, 2004 07:13 pm

yah, i took a venture to radio shack and they had everything i needed except the 1N34A...which they stopped carrying...but karetaker...you say that the ECG-109 and the NTE 109 can replace these?

...bringing sexy back
Member
Since: Jul 01, 2002


Nov 14, 2004 10:59 am

oh ok, a little box will do. what kinda connectors you putting on these things?

...bringing sexy back
Member
Since: Jul 01, 2002


Nov 14, 2004 11:07 am

make one of these for $15 loki!

www.americanmusical.com/item--i-EMP-FATSO.html

Member
Since: Dec 23, 2003


Nov 15, 2004 12:16 pm

Yes wontdieinPA I just double checked it to make sure. The "1N34A" is the same diode as an "NTE 109" I think that NTE Electronics bought out ECG. The old number was "SK3090" which then became the "ECG 109" which is now the "NTE 109". This is one of the problems with freekin' electronic components... almost every manufacturer has their own number.

Here is an online cross reference for NTE parts:

nte01.nteinc.com/nte/NTEx...Search?OpenForm

I have an ECG Master Replacement guide that I ues to cross reference parts. On the 1N34A in my book it comes up with an NTE 109, but the online cross reference comes up with a "NTE110MP" wich is a germanium diode as well. I'm inclined to think it's a 109. I have a call in to "NTE Electronics" so as soon as I hear back from one of their Tech's I'll let you know for sure. The 109 is just a little bit more "Beefy" than the 110mp. They are both Germanium Diodes.

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