AMD Or Intel - Whats best for music production?

> > > AMD Or Intel - Whats best for music production?

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Member Since: Jan 26, 2004

Hey whats up

(Greets to Coolo, Flame, DB, Noize)

I'm having a difficult time trying to produce music these days on my AMD 1900+ system with plenty of ram. The problem recently is, I'm working in Cubase and when I want to render a track and or am playing the entire track in Cubase, it'll start playing and when the screen goes more to the right as the track progresses, the computer FREEZES! Or, if I am simply rendering a wave file via fruity and or cubase, my computer freezes. This happens when the computer has been on for quite some time.

My faith now is a little tainted. Any thoughts on what MIGHT be the problem other than just the AMD CPU? I notice, when the CPU meter is over 60% with the vst plugins going crazy, the computer freezes.

Thanks in advance... :(

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Lost for words with all to say.
Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003

Aug 02, 2004 12:14 pm

I believe the 1900+ should do you good. The problem sounds like it's over heating, which happens. You probably need to clean the fans in your computer. A air can does the best, soft cloth with work. Just open it up and clean out the fans, especially the one over your CPU. Clean the heatsink over the CPU also, I had my junk up on me.

Than again, over heating restarts your computer, not lock it up most of the times. It might not be a over heating issue and your computer might just need a good formatting to clean itself up. Have you tried to restart your computer before you use Cubase or Fruit Loops to see how it does?

Than again, your CPU might be over working itself. How about your settings in BIOS? Are you over clocking it?

I'm so full of options right now, ain't I??!!

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Aug 02, 2004 12:21 pm

I can vouch for AMD being a totally capable CPU. I use a 2500+ and my studio PC is rock solid, and a 2100+ in the family PC, which I also do some work on from time to time.

In addition to overheating, you also may want to check for IRQ conflicts or incompatible hardware. These things generally popup during and boot, but sometimes only when specific apps are used. SOme sound cards require specific chipsets, some cards can't share IRQ's with anything else and need one all to themselves...things like that. Always have your sound card on the highest IRQ possible.

Also, make sure all apps and the OS are always fully updated to the latest patches available.

Member
Since: Jan 26, 2004

Aug 02, 2004 01:04 pm

Vdale: I have the case open now, got a new powersupply. Got a fan with speed controls and the CPU temp went down...I remember getting a blue screen of death one time, many many months ago but havent gotton once since and forgot what the blue screen code was. I had to do a recovery (using XP recovery disk) to fix things...Thanks for your input - I'm going to actually clean up the fan and see whats going on.

DB - I get an occassional freeze or have to manually restart my computer with the error "out of scan range" - I'm surprised my computer is doing this lately as it never did this sort of thing before. Im running an MAUDIO Audiophile USB soundcard...WD harddrive...2 of them. One new one and one slightly older one. I did a recent disk refrag as well. I will check the IRQ settings for the soundcard - However I notice when using fruity when I create the beats and have my korg hooked up to it, the CPU % goes to 70 and it starts crashing when exporting the entire composition to .wave

:/

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Aug 02, 2004 01:10 pm

"Out Of Scan Range"

Could somebody that knows for sure verify...but isn't that a video issue?

Member
Since: Jan 26, 2004

Aug 02, 2004 01:16 pm

DB - Yeah that is a video card issue. You think that is the culprit to why my computer crashes? Its just weird - it crashes everytime I run even Adaware software...Never did this before until past 4 months...Getting frustrated. Was thinking to upgrade my computer to AMD 64...Dunno now...

The video card is an ATI - They suck.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Aug 02, 2004 01:27 pm

I thought that was a video issue. ATI FAR from sucks. I have an ATI in all 4 PC's and two laptops I currently have in my house. For hardcore gaming there are better than ATI, but ATI is no slouch. Their cards don't perform the absolute best at anything but they are generally the most cross compatible of anything and perform more than well enough for almost any PC.

if you have a very old ATI it may be an issue not being big enough to run the very sophisticated graphics that audio apps have gotten lately, but my ATI Radeon 7500 runs awesome...and the Rage Fury Pro in my family box is still running great.

Member
Since: Jan 26, 2004

Aug 02, 2004 01:39 pm

DB - My ati is an old card, 32MB - Yes please dont kick my *** lol..But you think its the video card causing the hangups...

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Aug 02, 2004 01:48 pm

hehehe, no kickin' going on.

Yeah, my old Rage Fury is a 32MB and still still does the job. It could be the prob tho. One thing to do would be to go to www.atitech.com and make sure you have the latest drivers for yours. As old as it is, the latest drivers are probably the last ones you'll have to download, since it is as old as it is.

Make sure that card is IRQ 11 or so and that nothing is sharing. Make sure you are running in 1024x768 or so resolution (something it can handle easily) and maybe 16 color depth...Maybe it's the video card heating up depending on how hard you are working it now.

They do make super cool little fans made to put in a slot right beneath video cards that keep them cooler by grabbing the air and blowing it out the back of the PC, and they are quite too.

Or, possible it's time to invest in a new card...a 128MB card is often under $100 these cays.

Contributor
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Aug 02, 2004 02:53 pm

i, too, can vouch for both ati and amd.
im running a 2200+ amd with 512mb of ram and i dont have any problems until i start pushing 40 tracks in a song.

as for the ati, their older stuff was crap. anything in the last 2 years though has been very solid. im running their 9500 radeon card and that thing performs wonderfully. even in unreal tournament 2004 (killer game).

Member
Since: Jan 26, 2004

Aug 04, 2004 01:21 am

DB/Collapse: Dont know what the hell to do...I get lags in Cubase and what not if I push just 4 tracks and if I render to .wave, my computer freezes sometimes..It NEVER used to do this until....I installed a pirated software from Kazaa. I know, I think that might have screwed my HD up with a bad sector since I got a blue screen shortly after. Maybe its my HD...?

Contributor
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Aug 04, 2004 03:25 am

could be. i think the obvious thing to do, if you havent already, is to uninstall the pirated software. have you run anything like norton systemworks and let it clean things up? how about a virus scan?

i would also recommend a defrag. and a reinstall of cubase and audio drivers.
if this doesnt do anything or if its already been tried, ill come up with some other suggestions.

btw. you did check for that possible irq conflict right?

Lost for words with all to say.
Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003

Aug 04, 2004 07:15 am

Agree with collapse. I believe the pirated software has screwed you up. Hopefully uninstalling it and defrag could help. Also, the defrag could tell you if you have bad sectors.

Member
Since: Jan 26, 2004

Aug 04, 2004 11:38 am

Collapse - Yeah I've made sure all the IRQ's are seperated. After I received that blue screen of death, the computer actually never fully installed the program so it was not on my HD. I did do a system defrag. Now the funny thing is, if my computer is on for the entire day and I work on tracks at night, the freezing occurs, might be that the CPU gets over-heated? Because when I work on things in the morning when the computer isnt on for more than 2-3 hrs, no freezes. I leave the case open and all...maybe I need to drop the CPU speed back to 1600 since its over-clocked via bios setting for 1900...

Thanks again for all the replies/tips...appreciate it!

Contributor
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Aug 04, 2004 11:57 am

if its easy enough to do, i would try dropping the it back to 1600. see if it still occurs. with that information on the freezing, im prone to believe it is a heating issue.

amd seems to make superior chipsets, but theyre not designed for overclocking. not to say that it isnt possible, just a bit harder to do with success.

Lost for words with all to say.
Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003

Aug 04, 2004 12:32 pm

Yep, over clocking on AMD's can be an iffy thing. I'll but all my marbles that this is your problem.

Karyn
Member
Since: Jul 10, 2004

Aug 04, 2004 08:21 pm

How do you guys put up with this instability with PC recording. This would drive me insane!!!
Sorry I was just reading this thread quietly, but couldn't stand it anymore.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Aug 04, 2004 08:33 pm

My studio PC is rock solid, I haven't not had a crash on my PC that I didn't totally deserve in a loooong time, over a year methinks.

I had more trouble with tape stretching, running out of tracks, not syncing with SMPTE timecode and other analog hassles crap than I ever have with PC instability.

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002

Aug 04, 2004 10:58 pm

I have to agree with dB. I have had few stability problems. The caviot to that statement is that I do a lot of research up front i.e. compatability. I also have the good fortune to know a lot of folks that are very computer savay. I also have a tendency to inherit a good number of computers. This last two weeks I inherited two 1.3G early P4's. This makes it easy to keep my studio machine free of other types of software. All in all I do finde it a lot more palatable than the mechanical difficulties of the old analog world. Of course I just hates adjusting mechanical things. Makes me crazzzzy!

Contributor
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Aug 05, 2004 03:36 am

i just had this discussion tonight as a matter of fact.. i had xp installed since its release and ive only had 2 crashes. ever.

i think its more of a matter of what software you want to use. at least in the pc world anyway.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Aug 05, 2004 06:27 am

Collapse, dude, good to see ya 'round a little bit again, it's been a while, eh? Hope things are well for ya...still waiting for you to release a CD so I can buy one. :-)

Contributor
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Aug 05, 2004 11:49 am

yeah it has man. its been getting better slowly. im almost out of college (a year left).
ive been slowly moving ahead with the music as well. im sure ive got some new stuff to post and i know i have some tracks currently in the works that will rock.

ill keep you guys posted on it =)

Master of the Obvious?
Member
Since: Jun 29, 2004

Aug 06, 2004 01:41 am

Wow, has nobody mentioned Memory (RAM) as a possible culprit? It sounds like every time you run something that takes a bunch of ram, or have it running for a while (thank you XP for the memory leaks, etc.) it freezes. What kind of RAM do you have in there? (ddr/sdram , speed, number of sticks, brand, etc...)

Lost for words with all to say.
Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003

Aug 06, 2004 09:48 am

Good call [ins}anarchist.

Can we just call you "ins"?

Contributor
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Aug 06, 2004 11:28 am

i didnt mention ram because it didnt sound like the issue. my pc was overheating for a while.. usually after an hour or two of use. i did a little bit of exploring inside the case and discovered a fan had gone out.

doesnt mean that the ram couldnt be bad.
easy way to check. place your hand over the vents in the back of your tower. how does the air, if any is present, feel? does the case itself feel warmer than usual? is there any kind of noise present that usually isnt?

Contributor
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Aug 12, 2004 02:01 pm

so was this ever resolved?

Master of the Obvious?
Member
Since: Jun 29, 2004

Aug 13, 2004 01:11 pm

vdalehubbard: yeah, sure, "ins" works!

collapse: I agree, heat and bad ram can cause similar things to happen, due to the fact that they both become an issue with high loads on the computer.

>so was this ever resolved>

yeah, what's the story?

Member
Since: Jan 26, 2004

Aug 23, 2004 12:19 pm

Thanks everybody for the replies back. I have a feeling its my M-AUDIO USB audiophile...That is causing the CPU meter to go way up. I did test experiments where I would turn off the soundcard, open up a large project in fruity and or cubase and I can render out to .wave and no freezes. When the soundcard is turned ON, it starts to freeze since the meter on the CPU usage goes up to70%+

I went to M-Audios site, but no latest drivers are listed. I know M-Audio has problems with AMD. Does anyone know of a solution?

Thanks a bunch...

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Aug 23, 2004 12:21 pm

When does M-Audio have problems with AMD? I ran it on AMD for a long time, so have a few peeps I know with no problems at all?

Lost for words with all to say.
Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003

Aug 23, 2004 12:23 pm

I got AMD, Delta runs like a champ. Most likely, something in your computer (motherboard, memory) isn't working correctly.

Member
Since: Jan 26, 2004

Aug 23, 2004 12:50 pm

DB/VDale - I tested yet another experiment and when the card is off, the computer freezes when I was rendering to .wave

God this is making me mad...Its Corsair memory, Soyo dragon lite kt333 mb...I am stumped now.

Member
Since: Jan 26, 2004

Aug 23, 2004 12:52 pm

inarchist - In response to RAM, its Corsair 266 PC2100 DDR - 512 - 1 stick.


Lost for words with all to say.
Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003

Aug 23, 2004 01:14 pm

I would try a different stick of RAM. Get it from somewhere you know will take it back incase it doesn't work. Just open the package carefully and not rip it apart like it's Christmas morning. And if anyone asks, I didn't tell you to do that.

I would try the RAM. That would be the next step in my book.

Member
Since: Jan 26, 2004

Aug 23, 2004 01:34 pm

I just went into BIOS and reduced the CPU to 1200 as it was running @ 1900+ via overclocking in the bios. It did not freeze at all on me. my buddy states it might be a MB issue and not the CPU. What do you think guys? Thanks in advance...

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Aug 23, 2004 01:36 pm

Oh, jeezuz, you were overclocking it that far! Well no wonder you are having trouble, it's not the Mobo's fault...you are overclocking 50%!

It's not a Mobo issue any longer...it's not an issue at all...no manufacturer wil guarantee overclockability of anything, they provide the option to do it, but will not say it's advised.

Run your system at the speed intended and you won't have these problems.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Aug 23, 2004 11:12 pm

Ya, deeps I run AMD with ATI and M-Audio and have no problems at all. And my old PIII 667 runs stable as tank even stacking up huge track counts out past 30 tracks with 768 meg of ram so I dont think I would blame the MoBo or the CPU.

Over clocking can only be taken so far, and without absolute high end coolers running it will not work at all. Heat can build up at both the CPU and the NorthBridge chip and will devistate the performance and lock the PC up the instant it hits critical mass temp. My advice is to take it back down to 1200 and run it there.

AMD is a rock solid CPU and runs very well with all the audio software I have used.

Good to see you back around collapse, and you too deeps.

Member
Since: Jan 26, 2004

Aug 24, 2004 12:49 am

noize2 - where have you been bro?? Yeah I have had AMD of the years until recently, I started to wonder what the culprit was. As DB stated, I was over-clocking the sucker at that speed for 2 years now so I dont know if that maybe ruined the CPU and or the CPU was bad from the start..

Db - haha there's the trademark wit of yours :p But seriously, the AMD CPU is 1900+ but its unstable at 1900+ and so I have to cut down to 1200. I hate it because I can feel the difference so I might just upgrade to a new cpu...I do have 512 but I need possibly more.

Hows things with the both of you guys? Long time no chat...Appreciate the help..


Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Aug 24, 2004 05:25 am

deeps, the naming convention of AMD processors sucks. The 1900+ is not 1.9gHz, it is around 1.6Ghz (1600mHz). I have a 2500+ but it's actual clock speed is just a touch under 2gHz. Don't be misled by the stupid naming, it's not the speed of it.

Hello!
Member
Since: Jan 12, 2004

Aug 24, 2004 06:24 am

Aye..that AMD thing had me confused too...

Ejits - what a damn sneaky, stupid naming policy to adopt!

Coco.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Aug 24, 2004 06:50 am

Cyrix did the same thing many years ago. they named their CPU a "200", not because it ran at 200mHz, but because they said it was comparible to an Intel 200mHz...which was also not true...That said, I don't know what possesses AMD to take that naming route.

Lost for words with all to say.
Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003

Aug 24, 2004 07:16 am

Hey deeps, this might not work but then again it might.

Oh your motherboard, some of AMD motherboards sometimes have a jumper that will set the Mhz for your CPU. Like, 100mhz and 133mhz setting, something like that. If you have the manual to the board, it will show you where the jumper is at and what settings for what speed of AMD CPU you have. What type motherboard is it again? I can look and see for you if you like.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Aug 24, 2004 07:19 am

www.soyousa.com/products/proddesc.php?id=58 is the mobo

Not sure, but I think the 1900+ runs at 1.6gHz on a 266 bus, set it up at that and you should be golden.

On the up side, with 333 (PC2700) RAM and a new CPU, that Mobo can support up to a 2600+ which is a bit over 2gHz. Considering the age and limitations of that board (topping at the 333 FSB) it appears to be a very nice Mobo. I run a 2500+ w/1GB Ram and have no trouble at all with many tracks of audio and MIDI...

...and it's jumperless, all CPU setup is in the BIOS.

Member
Since: Jan 26, 2004

Aug 24, 2004 12:01 pm

DB - Here is what the SOYO bios says when I go to the combo feature menu:

a) CPU FREQUENCY SETUP
Description: Choose 100/133mhz depending on the FSB of your CPU.
Side note DB: the 1900+ CPU has 266 FSB and the menu on part A only allows me to choose 100 or 133.
Settings Before: I had left it @ 133
Settings Now: 100mhz

b) Frequency 1 Mhz Stepping
Description: Press Up/Down to overclock the cpu FSB.
min: 100
max: 132
Settings Before: 133
Settings Now: 132

I saved and its @ 1900+
--------
However i do not think that is what you told me to do because the limitations of the board does not permit me to go beyond 132 if I want 266 :/
New MB perhaps?

Thanks again DB/Vdale

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Aug 24, 2004 12:17 pm

OK, I am reading the manual, and for starters it does state many times that it does not endorse or guarantee it's product from overclocking :-)

I may be wrong here, but this is my guess

First, I would try the "Load Optimal Defaults" and see what it sets everything to...
You FSB should be set at 133Mhz with a 12.0 multiplier which comes out to 1596mhz, of, 1.6ghz, which is the speed it is supposed to run at.

My family PC runs a 2100+, I'll have to check and see what I have that set at later tonight...cuz it runs rock solid.

No, you do not need a new motherboard, you just need to use the stuff you have as intended...

Member
Since: Jan 26, 2004

Aug 24, 2004 12:29 pm

DB - I'm going to do that right now, I'll post a messgae once my computer restarts. haha yeah I read that as well on the MB, nice big bold letters haha

Member
Since: Jan 26, 2004

Aug 24, 2004 12:35 pm

DB - I loaded the optmized defaults and it sets both part a) and part b) to 100 mhz = 1200mhz.

:/

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Aug 24, 2004 12:41 pm

Then bump it up to 133 as it looks like it's already set to the 12 muliplier...

Member
Since: Jan 26, 2004

Aug 24, 2004 12:57 pm

DB - I set both parts a) and b) to 133?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Aug 24, 2004 01:08 pm

k, well, I dunno what you mean by the seocnd part, but whatever, I am just talking about the FSB speed (133 will be 266, the mobo knows best) and the multiplier...which should be 12, I dunno if that is autodetected. I think it is and your overclocking is done by the FSB adjustment...and that is why you were crashing, cuz you were pushing the RAM too fast, and presumably the PCI busses as well...

Member
Since: Jan 26, 2004

Aug 24, 2004 01:11 pm

DB - Part A meaning from my previous post
"CPU FREQ SELECT" has only 2 options for me to choose from 100/133

Part A - Is where the over-clocking gets managed and you can increment by 1mhz. Do I leave that field blank? It has min: 100 and max 132

For Part A - I'll select 133 and part b what do you suggest?

Thanks again DB

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Aug 24, 2004 01:15 pm

I don't even know what part b is...if it's not a multiplier, then I give up...I am just taking this info right from the mobo's manual...

Member
Since: Jan 26, 2004

Aug 24, 2004 01:27 pm

DB - Thanks...Im reading the mobo manual as well. Pretty confusing - I will switch the FSB to 133 and than the "Frequency 1MHZ Stepping" menu, I'm going to leave it at the minimum. According to the bios description, this is where the overclocking gets tweaked where you can increase the FSB by addition 1mhz ontop of the FSB that you select from the previous menu. Again sorry if its confusing, appreciaet your help. I'm going to do what you say by selecting 133 and than this stupid 2nd menu optoin they give you, I'm going ot leave it blank....

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Aug 24, 2004 01:29 pm

sounds like a plan, DEFINATELY leave the FSB at 133...THAT is where your problems start.

Member
Since: Jan 26, 2004

Aug 24, 2004 01:45 pm

DB - I set the CPU FREQ SELECT to 133 and the 2nd menu option below it "Freq 1MHZ STEPPING" automatically gets set @ 133 as well and thats the minimum. Now I hit save and restart, the startup shows "1900+" this is what I had originally the entire time....Now it might be a MB issue where it cannot support this high...?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Aug 24, 2004 02:25 pm

Well, I assume the "1900+" is just telling you what CPU you have, not necessarily how fast it's running or anything like that...

On the flip side, if you have had it overclocked for a long time you could have burnt the Mobo, the CPU, the ram or any/all of the above.

Member
Since: Jan 26, 2004

Aug 25, 2004 01:07 pm

DB - Damn...Okay *sigh* Need to upgrade...thanks for everyones help. :/

> > > AMD Or Intel - Whats best for music production?

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