little bits of help...

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Member Since: Apr 27, 2002

okay...i feel like such a retard when i come to here..i must come here at least once a day and try to answer a question of two..but i cant..i know nothing of what these people ask...but i try...well...we just re-recorded our bass...it sounds good...but whats a good ratio for a compressor setting..ive seen it somewhere on this site...but i cant find it again..ive tried for like..an hour...and i need huge amounts of help...okay....i have two sm-57's...and two small diaphragm condenser mics...and a dual 15 band EQ...okay...im trying to record guitar...dirty distorted guitaar..the sound from the amp is perfect.ive tried so many positions and it sounds HORRIBLE...any suggestions??
thanks (we sound like jimmy eat world/juliana theory)

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Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Oct 22, 2002 08:03 pm

Well first, don't feel like a retard coming here, if you can't answer stuff that is no big deal, ALL of us here have learned a lot by talking and asking questions, that is the only way to learn. That is kinda the whole point of the site in the first place, I would much rather have you feel comfortable coming here and asking questions. Nobody here is judging you or pointing at you and laughing...if anything I look at people like you and fondly remember the days when I was first beginning to learn recording and how things are done...argh...you would not BELIEVE some of the silly stuff I have done to try to get what I wanted...but hey, that is how we learn. You are among friends and collegues, remember that.

Secondly, everytime somebody asks that question I pretty much have the same answer...I dunno. It really depends on the signal and the desired effect. I do realize that is not exactly what you want to hear, but it is the truth, more dynamic it is (the wider the range betweens loud and quiet parts) the higher the "ratio" will need to be. If the difference is not that great, then the ratio should be less, maybe with a higher threshold.

Maybe it will help to understand the efffect better, try reading these:

www.dbmasters.net/hrc/new...story&id=13

www.dbmasters.net/hrc/new...story&id=84

And honestly, compression isn't always necessary. I rarely compress dirty rhythm guitar, but leads I do quiet often...

Member
Since: Apr 27, 2002


Oct 23, 2002 03:23 pm

thanks...those were actually very helpful..i keep forgetting there are NO LAWS in recording..everything is done according to taste...i need to remember that..thanks a bunch...jerry

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


Oct 24, 2002 12:25 am

Even retards can learn...Look at me! OOPS sorry I forgot this was the new milenium. Everything is "all good". Even those with greater than average potential for comprehension growth....

I always like to approach things with... What I have done that works for me is.... maybe not an answer, but a suggestion based on positive results.

Using a Berhinger, I have used up to about 4 to 1 on the bass. The caviat here is that I play bass and any more than that and I hear tone distortion. I am pretty cognisent of my volume per my recording efforts, so I usually use a pretty high threashold say maybe neg 10 db or less. Attack and decay depends totally on the piece. If it's punchy I want I tighten it up a little. If it's a sicken sweet love balad with plenty of bloom and stain needed I set it loose. As for the guitar amp and two mics, I have the best luck playing with placement of the mics and placement of sound dedening materials around the amp and mics. Usually I find that I am fighting with what the mics here vs what I hear. For me that's a function of both room accustics coupled with mic placement and filters in my head i.e. what I want to hear vs what is really audiable.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Oct 24, 2002 09:46 pm

Geez Walt, you write like a poet. I like the referance to the love ballad, plenty of bloom and stain. That is such a wonderfull play on word's only you could deliver.

Member
Since: Feb 18, 2005


Feb 18, 2005 12:27 pm

Hey, don't worry about the questions, this is what this is all about.

One of the things we've found out with distored dirty guitar is your live sound will be completly different then what you need to record with. Your live sound WILL NOT be able to be used for recording. Many things come into play when recording dirty guitar, but I'll touch on a simple thing to try first.

Right off the get go, you want to roll off anything below 300hz for guitars. For recording, you need to stay out of your Bass players realm. I know you probably are looking for a nice fat sound, but you will have to leave those frequencies for your bass player to fill out. Recording is done in layers. Each instrument has it's own "area", and when one instrument starts overlapping and encroaching on another instrument's frequency, it will start sounding muddy. Guitars need to stay somewhat "thin" when recording. They can stay "dirty" but you need to thin them out. You can make minor adjustments during mastering if you then want a bit more low end for your sound.

Trust me, even though your guitar by itself may sound "crappy" solo, when you get it in the mix, the bass will fill out what the guitar is lacking as it should. If you listen to commercial recordings, listen specifically to how "fat" or "thin" the guitars are recorded. They will sound incredibly "fat" in the recording, but when you really sit down and listen to the guitars and disect their sound, they are really "thin" sounding in general. It's the entire mix of instruments that will make the guitars sound huge.

As far as compressor settings...yes, we can't really tell you what a good ratio will be for you to use. This is totally dependant on your amp, pickups, effects, etc. But in general, we record dirty guitar (pantera, killswitch, etc.) starting at 5:1. From there we will tend to even go higher, but that's a decent starting point I would say. If you want more sustain, just turn your threshold up to taste.

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Feb 18, 2005 01:03 pm

that seems like an awful lot of compression for distorted guitar, really that's just gonna give you hella sustain....when ya distort a guitar it's turnin' all those nice transients into square waves and therefore compressing it, i shy away from compressing distorted guitars, all ya need to do is compress enough to keep those palm mutes under control.....i guess if you're dooin' a solo or something, it'd help to compress more, but for thick chunkin' power chords, not much is needed.

peace

wyd

Hello!
Member
Since: Jan 12, 2004


Feb 18, 2005 01:19 pm

I would agree with dB on this one in that, its not always needed at all.

I used no compressor on any song I recorded last year and only actually compressed my vocals and acoustic geetars...

Also, I would suggest rolling off everything under 300hz to be a helluva lot of roll off. I did (to start with) roll off everything under 80hz, but then I just started to pan properly and found I didnt need to roll off. I still do it sometimes but not always. To a point tho, I Agree - if ye take oot the bottom end i.e. below 80hz, yer doing the bass a favour. Judge by tryin and see what ye thinks...

Again, I reiterate, none of my dirty guitars (all my songs) have any compression whatsover. So, its not fair to say it must ALWAYS be done - its personal opinion.

Finally, and the single MOST important thing of all - if it SOUNDS good it IS good! Period...


Good luck to ye

Coco.

Member
Since: Jul 02, 2003


Feb 18, 2005 03:24 pm

I agree rolling off everything from 300HZ down does sound like a bit much but in the end if it gets ya the sound your looking for... and if it was gentle roll off, it probably isn't as drastic as it sounds.

I usually roll off everything below 100HZ, not much below that happening there with guitar anywho and it does open room for the bass and kick.

Compression wise most of the time I don't use much if any on the guitars except possibly for the lead work if it needs taming. But most of the time I have the guitars the way I want them to sound when I record them. Bass I usually compress just to get the levels consistent. Probably with a better bass guitar I wouldn't often even compress it.

Dan

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Feb 18, 2005 05:01 pm

ahem, it's not the bass, but who's playin' it, the best bass players can play consistantly on any bass....well that's quite a broad statement though. lol

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Feb 18, 2005 05:48 pm

I disagree, instrument different greatly, often on bases your deal a great deal with neck size and finish differences, string sizes vary from player to player and bass to bass that can be goofy as hell to somebody playing for the first time, just like any instrument, if you are new to it, it could slow ya down at first...

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Feb 18, 2005 05:53 pm

yeah i see whatcha mean

Member
Since: Jul 02, 2003


Feb 18, 2005 07:10 pm

Well I never claimed to be the best at anything, much less bass. :) But keep in mind I'm using a 40 year old Montgomery Ward special that has definitley seen better days.

Dan

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