Cymbals; Radical thought; One mic per cylbal?
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Posted on Apr 19, 2004 08:52 pm
Walt
Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member Since: May 10, 2002
Is there any merrit to this? Project Dead's drummer, Foot, is using 5 cymbals and a hi hat on his kit. I tried 4 overheads spanning the 5 cymbals and am getting a severe amount of bleed from the snare. I am thinking of dedicating a mic per cymbal. Maybe the cymbal itself will block enough snare to cut some of the bleed? Problem is the high end of the snare is still mid range of the cymbals and even after eq on the symbals the snare mounts in the mix and is over present. I am not sure wether to go the above route or just go with a spaced pair aray in front of the kit (ref Jues article on micing kits).
Any thoughts?
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Apr 20, 2004 08:23 am Well, a lot of people mic ride cymbals and hi-hats separately, and I'm sure people have gone further and miked up all the cymbals with good results, too. Gives you nice flexibility if you've got enough mics! I guess just try it out and see if it fixes your problem. I tend to find that putting a microphone too close to a cymbal picks up a lot of ring and just doesn't sound that great, so be careful of the proximity. I might argue that I like snare bleed in the overheads since it can give you sort of a nice stereo sound, expecially on rolls and stuff. However, you have to make sure that the overheads are the same distance from the center of the snare drum (I break out my measuring tape!) or else one of them will be "pulling" the snare to one side and you may have phase problems as well. I've never had an issue with the snare drum being too loud or anything when miking like this. You probably already know this technique, but I thought I would chime in just in case :)
el musicoFreeleance Producer/Engineer/GtrMember
Since: Aug 11, 2002
Apr 20, 2004 11:40 am usually, with any mics I can afford, close miking cymbals sound too brash.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Apr 20, 2004 01:10 pm Interesting....
Mr. Muffins- Thanks for that technique trick and trap, and no I hadn't considered the distance from snare effect. Good point will put it in the bag! El Musico- Pretty much same comment.. appreciate the input. I will listen closely tonight for a brash sound. These hints really do help a lot. This guy is good but a real pounder. It can be difficult to hear through the cans at times per the ambient sound. And I also agree that usually the additional snare pick up is not all that problematic except for the way this guy pounds it. He is much lighter on the cymbals leaving them something I have to try to pull up in the mix.
Thanks again!
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 25, 2004 07:00 pm Walt, if you have something in a mic that is a bit more directional as well, this could help avoid the cymbal bleed a bit. I dotn recal the mics we used on an old fingerprintz record but we had the same type drummer and the enginer and I beat our heads abainst a wall to figure out how to get the brass to come in a bit louder and we ended up using some dynamics that were very directional, pointed up into the cymbals. Still a bit of bleed but it was neglagable and a bit easier to smooth out into the mix.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Apr 25, 2004 10:47 pm Yow! Sure wish I knew the mics you used. I thought maybe pointing down at an angle with the mic pretty much over the cymble I could get less bleed. No dice. And the worst thing is that cans are no good at all with him pounding. In fact I had a heck of a time doing three songs that the drummer and bassest had to play together to get streight. The poor bassest could hardly hear himself in the cans with only his bass piped in! Closed cans and the accustic drumming still drowned them out. Blessed snare and brass are so close in amplitude and frequency that I can't gate the mess either. Next wack at it I will point up. With simple overheads the Cymbals are too weak as well. I am getting a decent mix using a center freq. IQ on the cymbal mics, but not the way I would like it. It would really behouve the drummer to learn to balance his dynamics a little but I don't think that is in the cards. Obviously, even in live performance his cymbals are lost. I wish I had the money right now to get five 012's with a super cap. I found one web site that is selling them for 99 a hit with both cart and super caps as well as the 10 db pad. Would make great sectional mics for the big band as well. Basicly fit the package for both bands.
Apr 26, 2004 10:29 am Not really a technical comment on this topic, but rather a thanks to Walt. Just mentioning this gave me an idea for a track I had been working on that I wanted to have a distant/spacy feel. I wound up micing each symbol and panning them around like one usually does toms. It worked out great. Once I finish the project I'll have to post it for you.
Thanks.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Apr 26, 2004 11:24 pm That I would love to hear mhubbard! I am gaining a real appreciation for drum recording. And thank you for the thank you! However to be honest if I posted a thank you for every trick, trap, hint, or inspiration I got from this website I would have no fingers left! But it is always good to be appreciated. So earnest thanks!
Apr 27, 2004 08:33 pm [quote]
However to be honest if I posted a thank you for every trick, trap, hint, or inspiration I got from this website I would have no fingers left!
[/quote]
How very true. However this one *really* worked for me. I'm cutting guitar tracks on it tommorow so I should have something to post soon.
Thanks again. =)
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Apr 27, 2004 10:36 pm How very cool! I am honored.
