Mic Hissing Problem
Home > Home Recording Forum > Gear Gab > Mic Hissing Problem
Posted on Feb 08, 2004 04:31 am
music_jim
Member Since: Feb 08, 2004
Hi,
I'm a newbie to the board, and I hope I don't sound too much like one!
I was recording with my new VF80 tonight, and I noticed that when I was recording the vocal part, there was a faint hissing in the background. I have no idea if the problem lies with my microphone or with my cables. I have a Nady SP-R3 as mic and a Peavey mic cable with XLR plug on one end and a 1/4 inch plug at the other. I really want to know how I can get rid of this hissing and if anyone has gear suggestions (different mic, perhaps?)
Thanks!
[ Back to Top ]
Feb 08, 2004 05:42 am Well, the thing that jumps out at me right away is the cord. An XLR to 1/4". Is the 1/4" end balanced? Meaning, does it have 3 conductors (ring-tip-sleeve) or the typical two conductor. That could lead to noise. In order for a balanced 1/4" to do any godd however, your VF80 has to support balanced jacks. Not being familiar with the unit myself I can't say if it does or not.
Something else you could do is find out where the noise is. If you have a 30 band EQ or so (though even a 10 band would help), run the signal through it and pull down various frequencies and see if you can isolate where the noise is in the frequency spectrum to help minimize it. Maybe even record it with that band down to help keep the sound out of your recordings.
Just some thoughts off the top of my head early in the morning...
Oh, and Welcome to HRC!
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Feb 08, 2004 11:46 am hey, on the subject, does anyone know of a multiband EQ plugin that i could run in Intuitive?
Feb 08, 2004 12:38 pm I wouldn't know if the 1/4 end is balanced or not, since I'm kinda illiterate when it comes to that and I don't dissect my cabling. My VF80 does support both balanced and unbalanced plugs, just not at the same time. Should I get a standard mic cable with XLR on both ends? I have a feeling the ones I've got are a rare breed, or people except for me know not to use them.
Feb 08, 2004 12:42 pm flame, SOnic Timeworks has a butt kickin graphic EQ that I use a lot.
music Jim this article www.homerecordingconnecti...story&id=26 the first set of images down in the story shows them both, the top is unbalanced, the bottom is balanced. If possible, go with balanced if the other end is an XLR...actually, use balanced all the time if you can...
Feb 08, 2004 12:53 pm Aha! Ya learn something every day. Glad I joined here...
Okay, my plug is a mono, unbalanced. Would an adapter plug work or do I need to buy/make a whole new cable with a stereo plug on it?
Feb 08, 2004 01:06 pm buy or make a whole new cable, you can unbalance and balanced cable, but you can't balance an unbalanced...whoa, did that make sense?
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Feb 08, 2004 01:18 pm cheers for that tip db, pity its $699...
anyway, ill stop hijacking this thread now...sorry jim!
Feb 08, 2004 01:20 pm Yeah I just looked into that... damdest thing. You'd think if they can unbalance a balanced cable, they can go the other way around. I'll try it and see what happens.
So is my mic setup okay? I know the Nady mic is pretty cheap, almost cheap enough to be sold in blister packs at the drugstore, but it's still professional. I'm wondering whether or not I should invest in something better.
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Feb 08, 2004 01:23 pm best all round mic would be a shure sm57, in my opinion. £100ish, great for guitars, amps, vox, drums and live work. cant go wrong!
having said that, gear is only as good as the person using it - unless your current mic is REALLY poor, you might well be able to get something half decent from it...
Feb 08, 2004 05:16 pm why does he need a balanced cable just for a microphone?
jim, you said the hiss was faint? this could be normal hiss from interference. unless it's really loud or a bassy humming it's likely normal.
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Feb 08, 2004 05:34 pm hmmm, the hiss could be from background noise the mic is picking up, or it could even be coming from the VF80 unit itself. I'm not sure what the VF80 unit is, but if it hums when you turn it on (fans maybe), the mic might be picking that up. Or, it could be the connection from the TRS jack to the mic input of the VF80. Or it could be something else entirely.
I actually use an XLR to balanced TRS cable in my setup and it works fine.
Feb 08, 2004 06:02 pm Well, honestly, I never said he needed it, I said it was good practice (or that is what I intended to imply) and it would be a good place to start de-hissing. If the home is old and has bad electrical, such as only two prong outlets and such that thrid cable can provide balance (no pun intend) and grounding to at least that signal.
If you can use balanced cables and the gear supports it, it's always best to use them.
juesContributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002
Feb 08, 2004 07:39 pm I personally think that $10 Nady mic is causing the hiss. Do yourself a big favour and invest in an SM57, you can get them fairly cheap off of eBay.
jues.
Feb 08, 2004 11:55 pm Let's see if I can answer all of these new ones...
First off, the hissing is just that; a general hiss, not really loud, sounds like dead air on a radio.
Second, the VF80 has no fans, it's a digital recorder with a hard drive inside, runs virtually silent. I know it can't be the recorder, because there's no interference when I plug in a guitar on the same port.
Third, the house is only about 30 years old and the electrical is pretty much up to date. I have a computer and other equipment in my room where I record, so I brought the unit out into the dining room to see if that was the case, and still the same effect.
And last, I turned the mic on and threw it under a bunch of blankets, the only way I can really test it, and any signal coming from it was pretty much gone, but the hissing was still there. I've already got a bid going on a SP-9, which is supposed to be Nady's clone of SM58, with a different coil (cordioid) than what I'm using now. If it doesn't help, well... live and learn, eh?
Feb 09, 2004 12:36 am Okay, I just made this discovery...
The VF80 has two ports, one for balanced plugs, one for unbalanced. The unbalanced only accepts 1/4 plugs while the balanced only accepts an XLR plug. Looks like I'm gonna have to buy an XLR plug and snap off the 1/4 from my mic cable.
Hopefully this will work. Seems logical enough, right?
Feb 09, 2004 01:10 am don't snap off anything! the 1/4" is fine
and it's not fans that we're saying make noise, just general thermal noise from the fact that no metal is a perfect conductor (a handful can be when supercooled, but that's not preactical at home) and it's impossible to fully escape all electromagnetic radiation and magnetic fields that might further excite the metal in your cables. any electrical signal which is an analog of sound (or anyother waveform for that matter) is going to have noise. i'm willing to bet your noise is just normal plain old noise. this can be accentuated by an unshielded cable, low quality mic pre, or any number of other factors generally related to inferior equipment. also, and you layer more and more tracks on top of one another, the "noise floor" rises and becomes more evident
some things that might help would be to turn off computer monitors and florescent lighting and anything with large electric motors in the room.
if you'd like, record and upload a sample of the noise somewhere to the web and i'll take a listen
and i'm not positive but if the mic you're using now is a dynamic, it is also cardioid
one last thing, how are you monitoring? because headphones can sometimes make even the quietest sounds seem obvious
Feb 09, 2004 04:19 am If you can use an XLR to XLR cable THAT would be the optimal situation.
Feb 09, 2004 09:30 am Good advice, Jamie, although I've already tried that by taking the unit into other areas of the house and testing it out there. I still hear that hissing, which in a way I'm actually starting to think might be normal, but then, you don't hear hissing in a professional recording... some friends of mine have done recording similar to mine and theirs sound pretty clean.
The mic I'm using right now uses a neodymium (sp?) coil, and as far as I've read a cardioid coil is supposed to be better.
I monitor with headphones, because speakers give off a hiss of their very own, which can be a throw-off.
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Feb 09, 2004 01:11 pm The first thing I would do is to try and borrow a different microphone, preferably an SM-57 or SM-58 and see if you still get the hiss. That way you can see if it is the microphone.
Or I would purchase/borrow (some here would say build) an XLR to XLR cable and use that to plug in your current mic to the VF80 and see if you still have the hiss problem. The main goal is to isolate different possible sources of the hiss until you can figure out what part of the signal chain is causing the problem.
Feb 09, 2004 03:47 pm neodymium is the chemical element in the magnet. i'm positive now that it's a cardioid. this simply describes the pickup pattern as being heart-shaped. i own a few sm-57's and they're the best dynamic mics i own so i too can recommend it.
and if you can hear a hiss in headphones, but not in other speakers, it's nothing to worry about. learn the basics and then worry about getting a more prefessional sound ;O)
Feb 09, 2004 05:55 pm On an experimental whim, I went to Radio Shack, at first to buy an XLR connector, and I found a type of transformer that changes an unbalanced 1/4 plug to a balance XLR plug. Since you can pretty much take anything back to Radio Shack, I bought the sucker and just tried it. I could still hear the hiss. Only thing I think the transformer really did was give my microphone less volume, and didn't solve any problems. Will I get different results with a geniune XLR connector? I'll probably have to hunt for one of those, since the only one I could find at RS was a female one.
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Feb 09, 2004 06:05 pm hmmm, I could be wrong, but I thought it was previously said in this post that you can't make something that is unbalanced into balanced. Honestly, I personally would just buy an XLR to XLR cable that is already put together. I think it would be easiest.
Feb 09, 2004 06:35 pm Well, the transformer is a big device, and I thought "Well, maybe they finally figured out how to do it." Most likely I'll take the thing back later and pick up an XLR to be safe. Everyone has to learn how to solder sooner or later, right?
Feb 25, 2004 01:09 am Well, here's an update:
I haven't been able to get that XLR. Just been too busy lately, plus Radio Shack is being stupid and has only been stocking female plugs... oh well, it'll get done when I get around to it.
Some good news, though, I got my new Nady SP-9, and I'm happy to report that the sound quality of the SP-9 is much better than my other mics, plus there's less noise. I'll definitely look into balancing my cables, just so I can really get on top of the noise problem.
Thanks for the advice everyone, and I'll let you know how it goes!
FunkDadyPNo Commercial Appeal.Member
Since: Jan 09, 2003
Feb 25, 2004 10:59 am this may sound stupid, but I don't mind a bit of hiss in the background. I record rock and so long as it's not unbearable, I leave it in. Even when I record a soft acoustic song, a little hiss just makes it sound a little more authentic and less "polished".
For example, if you listen to the White stripes, there is often a slight hiss at the beginning of their songs. Jack White records using an eight track. so that might be the thing.
What do you guys think?
Feb 25, 2004 11:48 am I find hiss annoying and it drives me nuts at any level. And I never planned on using the White Stripes as a production model to gauge myself against :-)
Tho she is a cutie...
FunkDadyPNo Commercial Appeal.Member
Since: Jan 09, 2003
Feb 25, 2004 12:38 pm I understand where you're coming from. I guess I'm a fan of a raw sound. It's kind of weird, but the velvet underground's loaded album came out in 2 CD form and the second CD was all demo. I like it much, much better than the studio version. There are some hissing sounds and missed notes, but it just sounds better to me.
does anyone else know what I mean?
And, db, meg white is definately cute.
Feb 25, 2004 12:49 pm I totally know what you mean. But when I think of a "raw sound" it doesn't generally mean noise for me. It means un produced first-take type of stuff. I have a few Grateful Dead's "Dick's Picks" and one other set of bootlegs the name of which escapes me at the moment, and they are raw studio outtakes often the same song 2-3 times in a row, and they are awesome in their raw uniqueness. I really dig raw unproduced recordings and live bootlegs, but I still hate just plain poor recordings. That said, I do see where you are coming from.
And she would be a lot more attractive to me if she would dump that loser that keeps beating on her...of course she has gotten her licks in on him too according to all the police reports, but whatever, at least they keep the "fun" in "disfunctional" :-D
