Pro Recording Techniques.
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Posted on Apr 11, 2002 11:22 pm
stupe
Member Since: Apr 03, 2002
hello all. im mastering for a band right now. and listening to numerous recordings while im at it. I notice my recordings sound WAY Too clear. sterile almost. even though i add reverb and magneto, the sound is still crispy and project studioish. i was wondering is there a way i can REALLY. and i mean. REally dirty up my sound. i heard, that i have to use a vintage compressor. i dont know if this is true, but magneto just isnt cutting it for me. will grungelizer work?
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Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 11, 2002 11:30 pm Yes, but use it sparingly. It has some really awfull sounding (and I mean that in a good way)preset's. Try the Drum Smasher preset. I cannot believe that Magneto is not doing it though. I use it all the time to wreek total sonic havoc, and I do mean total. Are you sure you are turning up the gain saturation enough?
Noize
Apr 12, 2002 04:26 am Ummmm, I don't think I would use Grungilizer, but hey, give it a try, if you do, like Noize said, use it very sparingly. I have heard some of your mastering and it is quite good I think.
I think your best bet is to have the musician dirty up the sound you record in the first place...
just a thought...
stupeMember
Since: Apr 03, 2002
Apr 14, 2002 12:19 am hey guys, im doing a recording for a band right now. and the drummer's kit sounds really bad, mainly his bass drum. sounds really muddy and nasty. and the band does not want that kind of a sound. i even flipped the beaters to the pedal around to try to get a punchier sound. what i was wondering is... IS there a program out there or some technique, where you can take a waveform(bass drum track) and have a proggie, analyze where the peaks are where each bass drum hits and put a marker there, and replace them with fake bass drum samples, like midi kick drum. they were not recording with a metronome, so i cant just use a loop in fruity loops, i hope you guys can understand that explaination. thanks -stupe
Apr 14, 2002 04:56 am Ya, I think you could probably use the same technique Noize mentioned to someone else, to turn the kick drum into MIDI notes, I can't remember the exact story, but it's here somewhere...
<personal opinion>
Ya know stupe, it sounds like what you are trying to do is a ton of work, ya know what I would do is go tell the cheap bastard to buy a better drum head and tune the drum the cost of the head would probably pay for itself in the time you will have to charge for to take his crappy drum sound and make it better...
</personal opinion>
the best defense is a good offense :-)
stupeMember
Since: Apr 03, 2002
Apr 14, 2002 10:19 am db, and you are totally right. but i have a bad habit of just letting things go. and the bass drum didnt start bothering me, until they had recorded their 13th drum track :P. so what i need is a ladder, to get myself out of this hole.
georgeContributor
Since: Apr 14, 2002
Apr 14, 2002 10:40 am Hiya Stupe. Just a cheerful reminder, our job is to "capture" the music. We all strive to make the best possible recording, but if the kick sounds like something ya'd rather not step in, ain't much ya can do to save it. Good luck, George.
Apr 14, 2002 01:20 pm Well stated george! It's their job to MAKE the sound, it's our job to put it on CD...
And Welcome Home, George, it's good to see ya back!
MSHARCMember
Since: Apr 05, 2002
Apr 14, 2002 08:12 pm I ahve to agree with George. I am a drummer, well kinda still a drummer I suppose and I have been doing a lot of recording lately and the kick has been bothering me. I finally too about 3 hours and just sat down adn tuned the thing properly rather than trying to get a sound that I wasn't going to get. The thing that Noise had recommended to me, I was the one who had the same question was to use the "extract timing" in SONAR to get it to a MIDI note. Well, I tried and I gave up after a little while because I figured it was going to be more work. Me personally, what I did was to take out a pillow I had in the kick and replaced it with a sweater and just touched it to the edges of both heads in the kick. That kept that head rattle down and I went through and made sure that each lug was tuned to roughly the same pitch. Then I dropped one lug about 1/4 turn to give the druma "dropping" sound. I do this on toms and it works really well. I kept my heads tuned really low because I don't like to get a snap back from the drum head when I hit it. That and I moved the mic about 6 inches away from the souondhole that was cut in the head. If he doesn't have a soundhole cu in the head that may make a huge difference. I notice that I get a punchy sound having that hole and micing that area. Again, its his job to tune, but a lot of drummers just can't tune very well and I am only half decent, I just had someone show me early on how to do it. Shouldn't be a huge deal to have him re-record just the drums tracks. Good luck.
Marc (da Sharc)
stupeMember
Since: Apr 03, 2002
Apr 14, 2002 10:48 pm hey guys, a little follow up. on the fake kick drum implementing. well i found a option on cool edit 2.0 (the audio app that i use) to mark all "phrases" when i select the kick drum waveform. basically i have the program mark all the kick drum "phrases" and then i delete the miked kick drum waveform and i go to each cue and paste a wav sampled kick drum. it sounds surprisingly good and on time. my only question, is, is there a program. that will just implement the wavs into each marked phrase? or do i have to go through each individual one (like 400 or so beats) and copy and paste?. ps: george, i bought the AT4047, hopefully it will sound good!!! :)
Apr 15, 2002 06:09 am I have never heard of such a program, and, since the markers were made in CoolEdit, I would guess it would have to be a CoolEdit plugin or addon that could only do that...since, I would assume, that the markers would only be recognized in that app cuz they were made by that app...
holy crap, did that make any sense? :-)
georgeContributor
Since: Apr 14, 2002
Apr 15, 2002 08:43 pm Hi Folks. Thought I'd chime in and add a little of my usual tangent related replys. Stupe, I think your gonna love the 4047. I'd say this would be a good time to try out a quad cable(Blue kiwi or Monster 500). They really do reveal a lot more, to my ears.And how ya liking the 421? Sharc, a couple thoughts on drums, not that a guitarist/keyboardist has any buisness telling a drummer what to do with his drums. On the kick, I agree that less damping is usually better. DW makes a little hourglass shaped pillow, and it really seems to be perfect for the job. Of course, ya already got the sweater working, so I'm just mentioning it in passing. A trick to get a little more bottom out of the kick is actually to try tuning it up. Sounds goofy, I know, but the tones are so low, that sometimes ya hear more of the kick overall if ya tune it up. Also, try cutting the hole next to the rim, instead of the center. This does a few things. One, even though your still pointing the mic at the beater, you'll get a little more skin tone. Two, positioning the hole towards the top half fo the drum, and pointing the mic down, your pointing the mic away from the hats/snare, for a little better isolation. Three, your getting the mic out of the direct path of the beater, so your working with a little quieter signal, and your preamp gain will be a little less touchy. I know kick skins arn't exactly free, but it's a technique I think is worth trying. And finally, give fibreskins a try on your toms. I think ya get a real natural sound with 'em. More boom, and less boing. Take care Folks, George.
MSHARCMember
Since: Apr 05, 2002
Apr 16, 2002 12:21 am George, thanks for the advice. Believe it or not, the reason that I tuned the head down, and its only the beater head by the way, is that the way it felt was terrible! I couldn't believe how much it just threw my playing off. Also, I had heard that trick about the hole near the rim, and that's where my hole is cut...just about the size of a foldgers coffee can. ANyways, don't do the pointing down thing, but that might be worth a try. Isolation isn't that bad for me though. I get some bleed over, but since I don't record live, I do all the tracks myself individually, I kinda like the ambience that it gives. I just started putting an overhead condensor(wish I had two but I only have one, the AT3035 actually) and it adds a real presence that I was missing. Made the snare sound ten times better and caught some of the room acoustics so things don't sould so sterile. Unfortunatley, I have hit the birck wall on spending, so I am trying to stick with what I ahve with the exception of the snare head which I replaced because it was WAY old and way dead. (I haven't been playing drums for some years since I was traveling) ANyways, I think that all the techniques are great though and I am sure that I will be trying some out myself. Cheers.
Marc (da Sharc)
