(louder) louder! Louder!! LOUDER!!!

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sloppy dice, drinks twice
Member Since: Aug 05, 2003

You guys that have heard my music - how the heck can I make it louder in the finished file w/o distorting it? Somebody mentioned a limiter...
But I don't really know what I'm doing wrong. When I record, my levels are just out of the red into the safety zone. (using CEP 2000, btw) Check my gear profile, my rig is listed there - what should I be spending money on to pump up the volume? Must I spend, or is this a problem with my recording technique or the way that my gear is currently setup?
Thanks for the help!

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Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Oct 17, 2003 08:52 am

Waves L1 Ultra-Maximizer plugin. w00t!

sloppy dice, drinks twice
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2003


Oct 17, 2003 09:00 am

What would I do, then, just run the final audio file through that plug-in? Or would I have to run individual tracks through it?
Just saw the price - OUCH.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Oct 17, 2003 09:55 am

Also, go check out Izotope Ozone...and no, just the final track gets put through it typically.

sloppy dice, drinks twice
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2003


Oct 17, 2003 10:36 am

holy carp are those expensive. hmmm, i think i'll refrain for now... my stuff is just musical masturbation anyway, i'm not commercial so i can't really justify the expense.
are there any services provided by companies or individuals who will master the audio in this way for a fee? i'd be more interested in buying the milk than the cow, if the price were right.

BTW, thanks for the advice, db. Much appreciated.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Oct 17, 2003 10:37 am

ya, my business. but the fee is often close to what the plugin is...at least if you do a couple of discs...

sloppy dice, drinks twice
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2003


Oct 17, 2003 10:38 am

what would your fee be for just the one song?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Oct 17, 2003 10:47 am

email me via the contact us form...likely it wouldn't really be worth my time to do just one song, honestly, I've never been asked to before...

sloppy dice, drinks twice
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2003


Oct 17, 2003 10:54 am

ok, don't worry about. thanks for the advice just the same, though. :)

Frisco's Most Underrated
Member
Since: Jan 28, 2003


Oct 17, 2003 01:36 pm

Hey tincan, in cool edit, in the wav editor, go to effects>amplitude>hard limiting. Play with this, it will make your song sound louder. Sometimes it will throw off your hard work in the mix though, so be careful with it.

sloppy dice, drinks twice
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2003


Oct 17, 2003 01:52 pm

Thanks coolo, I'll do that.

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


Oct 17, 2003 01:53 pm

just look around....there should be a freeware limiter out there somewhere.


a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member
Since: Oct 09, 2002


Oct 17, 2003 02:34 pm

A lot of limiters make things sound real nasty and distorted if you push them too hard, though. So watch out. A maximizer is ideal for the job-- Although even they sound nasty after a certain point.

Member
Since: Jul 02, 2003


Oct 17, 2003 10:15 pm

Tincan, in CEP the best way I've found is to use the Effects-->Amplitude-->Hard Limit.

Set the <Boost Input By> to around 3db (default is 6dB but I think you lose too much dynamics using that much). You can leave the Limit to the default of -.1 or play around with it too. Then click on gather statistics, and then click on Preview to see If thats what you want. Experiment with it, you can get some pretty strong mixs with it.

Good luck.

Dan


Cone Poker
Member
Since: Apr 07, 2002


Oct 17, 2003 10:59 pm

A good limiter, Ozone, and BBE Sonic Maximizer are what I use, as well as my EQ.

sloppy dice, drinks twice
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2003


Oct 18, 2003 05:22 am

I've heard some really good things about the BBE unit. I've been considering picking one up used. Makes a good difference, hmm? I'll check it out again. I've heard good things about the Aphex aural-c unit as well, anyone have any comments about that one?
Guys, I really appreciate the tips very much. Thanks.

Cone Poker
Member
Since: Apr 07, 2002


Oct 18, 2003 12:09 pm

I haven't heard about the other unit you mentioned by I love my BBE. I use the plugin, I want to get a rackmount unit soon to add to my rack. But yeah, It can be pushed pretty hard and still sound good

a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member
Since: Oct 09, 2002


Oct 18, 2003 01:12 pm

Let me recommend Izotope Ozone again from personal experience. I think it was one of my best purchases. It's a great deal for only $200 because you're getting more than just volume maximizing. Your getting some really, really nice EQ, multiband compression, stereo imaging, and harmonic excitation among other great features.

Cone Poker
Member
Since: Apr 07, 2002


Oct 18, 2003 01:36 pm

yeah I bought ozone not too long ago and I use it pretty often now

Eat Spam before it eats YOU!!!
Member
Since: May 11, 2002


Oct 19, 2003 08:31 pm

www.db-audioware.com has a multiband limiter that I use... free trial and $100 for the entire plugin pack

Member
Since: Jan 08, 2003


Oct 20, 2003 02:27 am

An outboard compressor/limitter will always give you better results, but then, I'm an analog freak ;)

First, you need to increase your headroom. A peak limitter can do this, drop it down, say 6dB. This way, you can up the gain by at least 6dB. If the material already has the headroom, don't use a limitter, or you'll risk distorting the audio (if it ain't broke, don't fix it). Without the headroom, you risk clipping.

Next, compress it, if you up'd the gain 6dB, then limit your compression to the "first" 6dB of the dynamic range only. Crank the threshold, and use either automatic attack/release, or your own ears to get it right.

A decent outboard compressor/limitter to do this can be had new for less than $100 easy.

W.

Member
Since: Jan 08, 2003


Oct 20, 2003 02:30 am

BTW, what I said above does NOT constitute mastering, nor is there any package out there that can do mastering for your for free. Mastering is a very in depth, and complex process.

Basically, the only thing this can do is 'normalize', or max out your source volume, without mucking up the audio. But then, that's what you asked for ;)

W.

a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member
Since: Oct 09, 2002


Oct 22, 2003 02:57 pm

What is mastering, then (Or premastering, I guess I should say)? I'm quite aware that volume maximizing is only one piece of mastering, but could you give me a little run-down on the full scope of the mastering process?
Of course no package will do mastering for you for free. I mean, you have to spend quite a bit of money on a good package in the first place, and then you have to know what you're doing and be good at it ;)
I personally have always thought of mastering as more of a stage than a process. It doesn't have to be complex, it's whatever you make it. It's just anything you do to the audio after mixing it to prepare it for the medium it's going to be put on. A really good job of it will be complex and in-depth, but that doesn't mean it always is, nor does it mean that it isn't complex for somebody who uses a software package. It certainly isn't for me! I spent at least a week "mastering" a simple acoustic CD for long periods of time with good ol' Ozone.
Sorry, I just get a little frustrated when people make mastering engineers out to be like gods in postitions that you could never hope to reach, and then don't really explain what makes the art so complex. Don't hate me...

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Oct 22, 2003 03:05 pm

That has been discussed at length several times...

In a nutsheel it is not only normalizing and maximizing, but making sure the percieved volume is correct from song to song, making sure the album flows properly from song to song, EQing for best listening in all types of devices and environments and more...it's the performance tuning of the whole recording, not just a song. A mastering engineer has to look at the whole recording as one big piece of music, rather than 10 or 12 pieces of music.

a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member
Since: Oct 09, 2002


Oct 22, 2003 03:41 pm

I know, dB. I've been here long enough and read all those threads, and I certainly don't want to make you have to rehash anything :)
What you say is what I've always thought mastering was, and that's how I approach it as well. As I said before, I know it's definately not just maximizing. I guess that my main gripe is with what Waldo said about mastering software packages since that seems to be a common mentality. I'm not exactly sure what he meant to say though, I could just be taking it the wrong way as I know both you and Waldo are quite educated in this department. I believe software packages can do mastering-- not by themselves-- but with a talented artist at the mouse with a well-trained ear for the job. And no, they aren't free, they do cost money ;)
I also kind of want to make the point that not all home recordings end up in collaborations, yet it's still necessary to have them premastered if you want them to sound good even by themselves.

P.S. Sorry if I'm sounding like an idiot today, I guess I'm not in the greatest mood

Member
Since: Jan 08, 2003


Oct 22, 2003 09:10 pm

I stated that the method I had mentioned above didn't constitute mastering...

Then I stated simply that there was no software package available that would do it (mastering) for free...
I don't see any disagreement!?

W.

a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member
Since: Oct 09, 2002


Oct 22, 2003 09:15 pm

Haha! I'm really sorry, man. Like I said, I was in a bad mood. I'll be better next time. I guess I just read it wrong and then that just triggered a tangent. No offense.

Member
Since: Jan 08, 2003


Oct 22, 2003 09:18 pm

I guess I should expand on that and say that there is absolutely 'no' process, whether hardware, software or otherwise, that will fully master a track or album 'automatically', or with one click of a button so to speak. At least, not properly.

Basically, it's up to the ear. Trained ears do better, sure, but untrained can do it too, if they learn how. All of us started out knowing absolutely nothing ;)

W.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Oct 23, 2003 04:46 am

If there was an "automatic" mastering process, I would love to NEVER hear it, cuz it would suck...

a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member
Since: Oct 09, 2002


Oct 23, 2003 02:42 pm

Agreed!

sloppy dice, drinks twice
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2003


Oct 23, 2003 02:43 pm

I appreciate all the advice, guys. Thanks.

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