musician but audio recording 'dummy'
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Posted on Jul 07, 2003 10:46 am
Allegra
Member Since: Jul 07, 2003
How can I use what I have to record? I would be so grateful for some initial guidelines.Here's what I have:
Yamaha Clavinova, 828mkll MOTU audio interface, mic, Sony headphones, Mac G4 OSX, DP3, or AudioDesk.
What is the correct way to hook all this up?
Where should the mic be? Should I hook up the Clavinova to the audio interface or directly to the computer for MIDI recording? Can I record MIDI and then audio on several tracks?
A lot of questions, and I certainly would be open for paid consulting, just to get me going.
Thanks so much to you experts!
Allegra
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Jul 07, 2003 01:28 pm wow, nice soundcard! with the proper software (doens't the MOTU come with digital performer?) you should have no problems recording with what you've got. Does the MOTU have preamps?? You didn't mention having a mixer, something that may come in handy as a quick way to patch yourslf into the interface. something like:
instruments/mics > mixer > MOTU > computer
and as for MIDI, you can use either the MOTU's MIDI or the computer's built-in MIDI, or both. As for recording MIDI then audio, certainly, you'd be best to record MIDI first and then add your audio once you've got at least one MIDI track down. That will help you keep from drifting in time and tempo.
Please be more specific with your inquiries. Everyone will be glad to listen and lend a hand.
LokiCone PokerMember
Since: Apr 07, 2002
Jul 07, 2003 08:09 pm Dude you got a sweet setup with that G4 and a Motu interface. Anyway, what you are going to want to do is run your instruments and mics into a preamp of some sort, then run the preamp outs to the ins on the Motu card, that will then send it into the computer for recording. Use the outputs of the Motu to send it back into your mixing desk or speakers or whatever. I believe that soundcard has MIDI ins and outs on it, so I would hook my midi gear up to that for ease of use. You can record as many tracks at a time as you have inputs on the soundcard and as many tracks overall as the software lets you.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jul 08, 2003 10:05 am Allegra,
Your question on mics is very difficult! You can put it anywhere. That is not synisism. It is your traveling ear. There is a lot to that question. Under a piano will give you soft deep tones. Over the bridge of a bass will give you defined tone and finger action. The "f" hole of a guitar will give you deep resonate sounds. Placed out in the room away from the instruments will give you the ambiance of the room. Capturing the sound in your minds ear is no less an art than creating it. Just as a musician will tweek his or her technique to fit a performance hall so will a recording artist in capturing the sound. Sorry..... practice, practice, practice. I hate it when people tell me that! Probably because they are right.
Jul 08, 2003 04:26 pm Gosh, thanks Jamie, Loki and Walt! For your terrific input. I’m beginning to see the light! Actually the MOTU 828 does not come with DP, but with AudioDesk. Mac OS X only works with DP4, have DP3 only. As for preamps, this is what the manual says: ‘both the low-impedance XLR and high-impedance TRS jack are equipped with a preamp...’ Is that what you had in mind Jamie? And ‘patch your interface’? Does the software do that? It has a ‘patch through’ button. As I mentioned previously I’m such a beginner with all of this that its hard to ask intelligent questions! See, there is so much jargon I don’t understand, such as ADAT (analog to digital something)? What the ‘word clock’ does, SMPTE time code, optical connectors, how to make the right choices with setting up sample rate and all the other sophisticated choices the 828 offers, just for starters. My first project is to compose some music I can encode to streaming audio for our web site. For this should I use audio, or MIDI, or both? I know it needs to be the right kind of file. Then later I plan to burn a CD with other music I plan to record. Walt I understand what you are saying about mics, AND practicing. I’m willing to give it whatever effort it takes. Again, grateful thanks, and cheers.
Jul 08, 2003 06:02 pm Quote:
both the low-impedance XLR and high-impedance TRS jack are equipped with a preamp...’ Is that what you had in mind Jamie? And ‘patch your interface’?
yeah the MOTU 828 will do just fine as a preamp. I just meant physically patching a mixer in between you and the MOTU to simplify the process and keep you from running around behind your rack and plugging and unpluggind stuff all the time. There's a hundred ways to so it, you can do it how ever you'd like.
As for software, that could be a whole 'nother thread! I'm not at all familiar with tracking software for Mac OS X. sorry :O)
As for jargon, check out the glossary here at HRC, there's a link over at the left. DAT is digtal audio tape i think. And as for MIDI, all MIDI will eventually become audio in the end so either will do. It depends very much on what kind of music you're making for your web page. And don't feel bad about being a beginner. I think you've got a nice core system with the MOTU 828 and it's something you probably won't outgrow for years to come.
juesContributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002
Jul 08, 2003 07:26 pm You certainly have been thrown in at the deep end haven't you :D
I am afraid that I am not familar with 'AudioDesk', and most of the people here appear to be from a "pc" founding, but don't let this deter you!
I would reccoemend some high end sequencing software such as Logic Platiunum Audio 6 or Cubase SX - both of these will function very well on Mac Systems and will provide you with all the functions you need from a sequencer. (and they have OSX compatibility, so no problems there)
MIDI is used to control external synth modules or fx boxes (etc) MIDI is like a communication device for Digital Musical Instruments, no audio is sent via midi, only data.
For your first projects you will probably not require midi, you should be able to hook your MOTU into your MAC easily enough, Your sequencer (Logic, Cubase SX, AudioDesk, etc) will then detect it and "interface" with it - Macs are usually very good on this front.
You will then be able to reccord and arrange audio in your sequencer, so you should be set for your first project, obviously there is a learning curve involved, but this is to be expected ;)
Any questions, feel free to shoot, and be sure to check out the Tutorials ("Recording Tips") Section for loads of essential information.
good luck!
jues.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jul 09, 2003 12:50 am Allegra,
Congradulations! You have the spirit! Getting there is all the fun as there is nowhere to "get".
Welcome!
Jul 10, 2003 02:05 pm Wow! I'm so grateful to you all, and now have enough to go on for starters. Just one more question: about mics, my community here would like me to use what we have (we use this brand)for our PA system in the church: Electro-Voice N/D series 11 357A1, 357AS. Is it any good for this purpose? Don't we need a condenser mic? Thanks again
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jul 10, 2003 03:38 pm What you hear is what you get. How do plan on recording? Is it a group? Do you intend on recording each "voice" (instrument or vocal) seperately or recording the group as a performance? You need to "map" out a plan. Will instruments go in direct or be mic'ed? If there are instruments involved are they accoustic? For example: A vocalist can be recorded with an radio shack dynamic microphone. A Nandy dynamic would do better. A Shure 57 or 58 would do better yet. An Octava 319 better yet if the rest of you equipment is sensitive enough to capture the difference. Better yet may be a Blue, again if your equipment and general budget will support it. Do the members of your group have the patience to let you try recordings with each of the microphones you have at hand? And listen to the recordings with you to determine if the quality is acceptable?
The last church group I worked with had one individual who was bent on recording the group. He has been for ten years or so. The group let him do what he wanted with no support or resistance and he has yet to get a decent recording. The group will allow him to play his recordings on occasion like a kid that keeps bugging to play his favorite record. That is the extent of their interest.
I do not understand the origin of your question and therefore can not give any diffinitive answer. The better the equipment and knowledge of recording, the better the recording considering only equipment and knowledge. Without group "buy in" the "formula" no longer applies.
If you need colaborating testomony to purchase equipment I suggest you make bone soup. Make a recording with what you have and tell them how much better it would be if they only added this or that spice. That is a much more palatable approach to most folks than being presented with a 10K to 50K plan for studio equipment.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jul 10, 2003 03:52 pm Ok, I sensed I was missing something so I visited your home page. To honor the wishes of your community, yes you can use the mics you have to record your group with proper wiring. Again a condensor can increase the quality of what you can achieve, however it is not essencial.
juesContributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002
Jul 10, 2003 10:24 pm to be honest that worries me deeply, but then let's keep this professional...
LokiCone PokerMember
Since: Apr 07, 2002
Jul 12, 2003 04:00 am yeah, you can use the mics you have, like they said a condensor mic would be better, but then you'd also have to worry about phantom power...
Jul 14, 2003 10:50 am I noticed that the mic I mentioned (ElectroVoice ND) is set to connect to a 3 prong wall jack (does not seem to have the right connection for plugging into the 828 interface) Also it will only pick up the person speaking/singing directly into it. Nothing on the side. I'd like to record the clavinova with it. Is that still OK? What the dickens is phantom power???
Grateful thanks once again.
juesContributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002
Jul 14, 2003 12:56 pm Right, your Microphone, (The ElectroVoice ND) uses an XLR cable (the 3 prong connection). I am presuming it is just a standard dynamic mic and as a result it does not require phantom power (Phantom power is a +48v current that condensor and ribbon mics use to draw power from - dynamic mics, however, do not require any form of powering.)
The cheapest solution (and easiest) is to purchase an XLR to 1/4" Jack cable, so that you can plug this mic straight into the 828.
Dynamic Mic's usually have a cardiod pattern meaning that they mostly pick up audio within a 100 degree arc from the grille. It will pick up sound from other directions, but they will be significantly quieter and less detailed.
To be honest, you are going to need more than a single Dynamic Mic to capture a choir....
jues.
Jul 17, 2003 07:54 pm I just read on another thread that MIDI can easily be turned into audio. How? Would the MOTU interface do it? I plan to record from the Clavinova (a very high type model with a wonderful sound) one voice at a time on different tracks, (for example a harp,soft strings then flute for starters). The possibilities are almost limitless with this instrument. I guess my question is could I/should I do this with a mic instead of hooking up the Clavinova to the MOTU?
Thanks so much, I'm beginning to understand about mics.Do you think I also need speakers?
Appreciate your input about all this more than I can say, its been soooo helpful:)
