Making all songs on a CD equal volumes?

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Member Since: Nov 21, 2002

Okay, i have 7 songs that i want to put onto a CD to give to one of my friends. I want to know how would i make all of the songs be the same volume? i have sound forge and sonar. Thanks dudes

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Bane of All Existence
Member
Since: Mar 27, 2003


Jun 11, 2003 05:20 pm

a simple way would be to use sound forge's normalize function and set it to give it the same RMS value for each song. i think it sounds like crap, but it's not that noticeable if it's not too far from where it is to begin with.

Contributor
Since: Sep 09, 2002


Jun 11, 2003 09:31 pm

Dan, we have several articles on mastering in the Tips section homerecordingconnection.c...t&cat_id=12

and there's a thread going on right now on topic homerecordingconnection.c...=2170&frm=1

-j

Member
Since: Dec 16, 2002


Jun 12, 2003 06:22 am

"a simple way would be to use sound forge's normalize function and set it to give it the same RMS value for each song. i think it sounds like crap, but it's not that noticeable if it's not too far from where it is to begin with."
Minkus, why does S/F's normalize function sound crap? I think you have said this before, but don't explain why? I am curious to know what the problems are with this method as it is what I was hoping to do myself.

Assuming the music stays within the digital domain, why would altering the volume levels make any difference to the sound of the track other than adjusting the volume level? Are you saying that S/F actualy alters the sound of the music in some way? Is this true for all software tools of that type? Do we therefore have to buy very expensive software tools to keep the music pure?

I must explain i don't record on PC so am not too familiar with PC tools, though I do know how to use Soundforge. I use a fostex multitracker (vf160).

Contributor
Since: Sep 09, 2002


Jun 12, 2003 06:37 am

glynb, the object of mastering is to get all of the songs on an album sounding like they belong together. if one song is too loud compared to another it might seem like they just don't flow together. Minkus is interrested is the RMS (root mean square) because it shows the true energy level of the waveform as opposed to a peak normalizer which can be misleading.

So Minkus, why is it Sound Forge's normalizer sounds crap? It is gaining too much and causing your peaks to run out of headroom?

Member
Since: Apr 24, 2003


Jun 12, 2003 06:45 am

i find normalise doesn't really compress,it just squashes, and you lose a helluvalot of the detail. i have the same problem with cds, but i use reason and then export as wavs. i'm having to get into premastering so that it sounds the same coming out of the desk (in reason) and the peaks etc are the same.

also, i use compressors and other units post-desk. it seems to be working, but we'll see.

Contributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002


Jun 12, 2003 07:00 am

No No No!!! :D

A lot of people that I speak to seem to get very confused over this point.

Normalising to Peak Value DOES NOT alter the quality of the signal in any way other than making it louder and thus use the full amount of bit-depth avaliable to it.

However, when you normalise to RMS Values, Soundoforge will (if necessary) apply a brick-wall limiter, which will affect the characteristics of the track because of the very hard compression being applied.

If you need to bring your tracks up in level you will either have to use a Compressor set up as a limiter, or, more preferably, a sonic maximised such as Waves L1.

jues.

Bane of All Existence
Member
Since: Mar 27, 2003


Jun 12, 2003 10:13 am

pixelpixie and jues explained well why i think SF's normalize sounds like crap when used for this type of application. SQUISHHHHHH.

Member
Since: Dec 16, 2002


Jun 13, 2003 06:34 am

"Normalising to Peak Value DOES NOT alter the quality of the signal in any way other than making it louder and thus use the full amount of bit-depth avaliable to it.
However, when you normalise to RMS Values, Soundoforge will (if necessary) apply a brick-wall limiter, which will affect the characteristics of the track because of the very hard compression being applied."

Right.
So I need to import my stuff to Soundforge and choose the option to Normalise to Peak Value, not RMS. Right?

This would result in all the tracks on my CD sounding a similar volume level? (I know that is not mastering as such).

Did engineers in the 1960s have to worry about all this stuff?

Contributor
Since: Sep 09, 2002


Jun 13, 2003 06:46 am

engineers in the sixties had to do it all by ear. they didn't have computers to do it for them :O)

Contributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002


Jun 13, 2003 09:24 am

But more importantly they worked on tape that didn't really clip, you could keep cranking the volume for quite some time before things became a squishy mess.

jues.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Jun 13, 2003 11:27 pm

And they actually sat there and watched meters with little needles bounce and tried to ride the faders on the console to correct everything that needed correcting. That is how I learned the art of it all. I was even schooled in the art of altering the balistics of a peak meter to suit the needs of the not so quick at hand. I used to sit and watch in awe as all those needles bounced around, and then look down to see my mentors fingers seem to stretch accross a dozen faders all at once and he would nudge each one here or there untill everything was perfect. He would take few runs through and then after he thought he had the moves down pat would sync up the 2 track and begin the playback on the multi track and it was like watching a magician as he waveed his hands around the console to make the adjustments just as he had practiced.

That is now a lost art for the most part Im affraid, but I know a few who still practice that same technique.

Contributor
Since: Sep 09, 2002


Jun 14, 2003 05:55 pm

Noize, thats awesome....

Bane of All Existence
Member
Since: Mar 27, 2003


Jun 14, 2003 06:15 pm

it's kind of funny, because what we're doing now with today's stuff is going to be pretty different in a while!

Contributor
Since: Sep 09, 2002


Jun 14, 2003 06:36 pm

i dream of the day when we simply hook two little electrodes up to our heads and the music we imagine gets recorded.

Member
Since: Apr 24, 2003


Jun 16, 2003 04:01 am

aaah, but where's the challenge?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Jun 16, 2003 05:43 am

Ya, I am kinda with pixie on that one. Sometimes trying to get the idea from my head onto my recording makes me adjust and take turns that actually wind up being cooler than the original idea...

not usually tho ;-)

Contributor
Since: Sep 09, 2002


Jun 16, 2003 11:30 am

yeah right dB, that's what the nay-sayers said about using computers to make music, "too easy". If we live to see a technology like that, we'd be blind not to take advantage of it ;O) -j

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Jun 16, 2003 06:33 pm

I will say that using the PC to record did increase the ease and speed of things, not to mention opening many new creative doors. But at the same time, it brought out the perfectionist in me, and it sometimes causes me to go much deeper then I ever would have in the analog world. But it still takes less time, and it usually sounds much better when the product is finished.

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