Should I upgrade my DAWS?

Posted on

John
Member Since: May 06, 2007

Hey guys!

I have been a member of this site here since 2007, and I have come a long way in home recording because of the fantastic community this site has rounded up. I went from an 8 channel digital Fostex personal studio recorder unit to a spare room full of hardware with a custom self-built 6-core PC with all the trimmings because of of this site :)

I have not done much recording the last 3 or 4 years because I usually stick to recording my own bands' material. I just recently started a new project, and we started tracking this week.

My DAWS is a bit outdated but I am not sure if I am in need of upgrading to something new. I know they say do not fix that which is not broken, but I can't help but wonder if I should attempt to learn a new DAWS.

I am currently using Sony Acid Pro 7e - which is the latest version, and quite frankly, it has been the latest version for years. It is only a 32-bit support, which I know is bottle-necking my full potential. My PC is a Windows 7 Ultimate setup with 16 gigs of ram, 7 internal hard drives, and a 6-core AMD processor. And I will be upgrading to an 8-core @ 4.0 GHz soon.

Sony seems to be done with the Acid line, as I have looked for a potential Acid Pro 8 for a while now. I hate learning new software as it east up much valuable time, but I also hate being limited to 32-bit support because I am not using my full potential. And I start adding plugins and what not, Acid starts to slow down a bit. By the time we track all vocals and guitars and add plugins, she tends to lag quite noticeably. I am assuming it's because its because of the 32-bit in a 64-bit world ordeal.

Do any of you have any suggestions for new DAWS that I should consider looking into? Not Pro Tools either... I have my own hardware I would like to keep using...

I need pretty much the full potential of a DAW. I use Superior Drummer for drums (midi needed), Line 6 UX8 for my I/O (usb controlled), I use VST plugins from Line 6, Waves, and Sony, and unlimited tracks is needed.

Anyone have any suggestions? I would like some sort of free demo download or something along those lines to truy the software out before making any purchases. And if there is any company that has a video presentation on how to use the software, that would be great. That is how I got so good with Sony Acid. I bought their seminar series video that had a full video walk through of the software with a second CD of files that you could follow along with...

Thanks in advance for any replies.

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Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 06, 2015 07:11 pm

I have to say, in reading your post it sounds like you want to update just for the sake of updating...you do state what you want, but not really saying you have needed it yet or have found the limitation, just that you know the limitation exists.

That being said, the 32 bit limit can be a bottleneck, that much I can see.

If you want a free trial of something, check out Reaper. www.reaper.tv , I use my Line 6 KB37 interface with it very nicely...and they do have a 64 bit version.

John
Member
Since: May 06, 2007


Mar 06, 2015 07:35 pm

Thanks DB.

The issue is, I have not been involved with much of the audio production stuff the last couple years. And with all the other techs changing so fast, I am assuming I am out dated in a way.

I can run what I have without issues for the most part. Especially since I usually send my tracks elsewhere to get mixed/mastered. I don't have a decent room for mixing, so I don't really attempt it.

I think you are correct in saying I wanna upgrade mostly to just upgrade. I was kind looking for a 'Honestly, I don't think you NEED to upgrade just yet' because I HATE learning new software, especially when it comes to something on a sclae as big as this ha.

I just really wish Sony would release a version 8 with 64-bit capabilities....

That reaper link did not work, btw...?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 07, 2015 05:08 am

The link works now...sorry, the comma got into it.

I get the 64 b it issue, but hey, if it works, it works, so why spend the money? Though, if you like Reaper (I love it) it's only 60 dollars! And is a very capable app.

I didn't know Sony stopped developing Acid...must be putting all their work into Vegas or some new app...

John
Member
Since: May 06, 2007


Mar 07, 2015 05:13 am

I can't be certain that they stopped developing it, but there hasn't been an update for it in over 5 years. I see them updating the Acid Studio version which is like the id brother of the Pro, but nothing else.

They have been releasing new versions of Vegas and Sound Forge, but nothing has been said about Acid Pro. I actually just upgraded to Vegas 13 and I tried out Sound Forge 11. But other then that, I haven't seen any updates or indications that they are working on a new Acid Pro.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 07, 2015 05:55 am

I tried Vegas years back, found it clunky and hard to use...I was, for a long time, a Sonar user, easy to use, functional, but in the last 2-3 years it's been all Reaper. Has all the features I need, lighter weight on the system, and sounds great...

If software hasn't had an update in 5 years, I'd say that is a good indication of no longer developing it...unless they happen to come out with some epic release in the next couple months.

Once Sony bought Sound Forge and related products from Sonic Foundry, I sort of assumed Acid would go by the wayside...with the possible exception of the lite version for hobbyists and wanna be DJ's.

Byte-Mixer
Member
Since: Dec 04, 2007


Mar 07, 2015 07:06 pm

I would say it's time to upgrade. Often, as legacy software becomes outdated, newer hardware or OSes have trouble running old software. (games commonly have this problem)

I would say it's a good idea to keep current just as good practice, especially when and if you have the time to put into getting around the learning curve of a new DAW.

Fundamentally, all DAWs do the same thing. The only thing that changes are the bells & whistles, and the workflow. In your case, I would try a lot of different demos, and try to find a workflow that your brain jives with, and that makes it easy for you to navigate, and just get things done in general.

Reaper is what I use, and like, but it's not for everyone due to just how configurable it is. The upcoming Version 5 of Reaper is supposedly adding an integrated music notation editor (like a score editor lite) so, I'm looking forward to that. They had a work-in-progress version of the notation editor in the pre-release, but they temporarily took it out to do some more work on it.

Though with Reaper, you do have to renew the license after 2 version numbers. It takes a very long time for it to update that far. I bought Reaper somewhere in Version 4 in 2012, which means I'm good until version 5.99, and we're currently at version 4.77.

So, if you bought it when version 5 comes out later this year, you'll be good until version 6.99, which will be a few years away before you have to renew the $60 license.

Similar to reaper, but more structured, is PreSonus Studio One. They also have a free demo. I liked the layout, but it doesn't enable VST/i until you buy at least the Producer edition, which is more than I want to spend. That was a bit of a turnoff for me, but not uncommon.

I understand not wanting to go with ProTools.

FL Studio is still going pretty strong, but I haven't used it since getting Reaper (about 3 years ago). I never liked how it handled audio (midi editing is good, but Reaper is rapidly catching up) I feel like overall Reaper has a much better layout concerning audio and how stuff routes through the mixer.

You also have the other big players like Cakewalk Sonar, whatever the current version is, and the most recent version of Cubase.

If Mac based, you have Logic, and Ableton Live.

Fairly recently, a new DAW called Bitwig has surfaced, and that might be worth looking into. It looks interesting to me. www.bitwig.com/en/bitwig-studio/features.html

Bitwig's demo link is on the buy page over on the right. I haven't tried it myself yet, but I might take a look at it soon since I like the ideas behind it. Still a $300 price tag, though. Not unlike most the other stuff out there. :P

So, I would say, maybe make, or pull out some scratch tracks, pull them into the demos, and see which demos allow for you to work easily.

Fair warning: some demos have VST support disabled. Studio One's free/demo version doesn't have any VST support, as I mentioned, so keep that in mind as you look around.

John
Member
Since: May 06, 2007


Mar 07, 2015 07:42 pm

Thanks for the reply J-Bot.

I am going to have to give this reaper a look at. Does it have full DAW features in the unlocked full version? As I stated, I have VSTi plugins from Waves, Sony, and Line 6 and I have midi soft synths like EZ Drummer, Superior Drummer, Ect.

I have a USB Midi I/O and a Line 6 UX8 USB interface, and I would need the software to talk to these devices without question....

I'll give a look at the demo and see what I think.

John
Member
Since: May 06, 2007


Mar 07, 2015 07:47 pm

Never mind... haha. Stupid questions. I am looking at the website and PDF user manual now. I may give this thing a run....

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 07, 2015 08:24 pm

I'll be curious to hear what you think of Reaper, quite a few folks around here use it. I used to be a Sonar user, but the price started getting stupid high like Sony and Steinberg stuff...so I figured I'd give it a shot...

Glad I did.

John
Member
Since: May 06, 2007


Mar 08, 2015 08:48 am

Gentleman,

I come to you today with a huge.... HUGE thank you! I downloaded Reaper last night, and started playing with it. I have picked up much of it very quickly without reading the manual. It already has several features that Acid did not, and many EASIER ways to do a few tasks. And I am sure I haven't not even popped the cherry on this bad boy yet. I can see why so many of you are using it. for $60, with free updates for the version number, it's a steal!

I have been ale to load Superior Drummer into it, and even route all the drum tracks to the main Reaper mixer, which is something I have not been able to do in Acid without issues. It took a whole 3 seconds in Reaper, as it asked me if I wanted to add 32 channels to the mixer as I imported SD into a virtual instrument track.

I just wanna say, and I can not stress this enough... I LOVE this forum and the community you guys have built! You guys have always been a HUGE help since I started coming here in 2007. The majority of my project studio stems from the help, tips, and ideas I have gotten from you guys. I have met users from here that have mixed my projects for me, and I have learned much gear and software from coming here. Keep up the great work, and THANK YOU again! I'll be back with more if I run into any issues or questions with Reaper.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 08, 2015 08:50 am

Very good to hear, rock on!

John
Member
Since: May 06, 2007


Mar 08, 2015 08:53 am

Thanks DB! I started out on a red Fostex digital 8 track recorder that recorded on a compact flash card in 2007. Because of this forum and a couple 'For dummies' books, I have grown into my own little project studio.

If you guys are interested in seeing my setup, I have started a Facebook page for it.

www.facebook.com/speilsplashstudio?ref=hl

Tank you so much again!

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 08, 2015 08:57 am

Yep, my first device was a 4 track Fostex maybe 25 years ago, then to an eight track cassette thingy, then to digital...it's been quite a ride over the last 20 years when it comes to home recording.

One can drive themselves into the poorhouse if upgrading just to upgrade, which is why I always encourage caution. Looks like this change will be a good one.

Enjoy! Looking forward to hearing some of the music that'll come from it.

John
Member
Since: May 06, 2007


Mar 08, 2015 09:01 am

Oh, I know that for sure! I have been doing much better on NOT buying pointless additions. Which is why I came here asking first. I am saving up my dollars up for a new motherboard to upgrade to an 8 core processor at 4.0 GHz and a new video card. But $60 is chump change for something so powerful... amazing!

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 08, 2015 09:02 am

It is pretty darn impressive for the money, for sure.

I'm glad this thread happened. HRC has been slowing down the last few months, almost consider shutting 'er down now and then, then a thread like this happens that let's me know it's still relevant and helpful to people.

So, thanks for that, I needed it.

John
Member
Since: May 06, 2007


Mar 08, 2015 09:07 am

Oh no! That would be unfortunate! My last band released a 6 track E.P. that we recorded here ourselves and one of the other members here mixed for us. We where all over itunes and amazon with it when we signed up for a cd baby account for online distro.

I owe so much to this community, I would be really bummed out if you shut it down. I have not had the need to come here much recently because I took a step away from band stuff for a couple years, but I am into a new project and that is what lead me here. We're currently tracking new songs.

John
Member
Since: May 06, 2007


Mar 08, 2015 12:04 pm

Ok guys, I have been playing around with Reaper. I wanted to try and start tracking with it today, but for some reason I have bumped into an issues with my Superior Drummer.

When i first started the project in Reaper, everything was fine. I routed all the SD drum channels to the main Reaper mixer, and labeled the channels. I inserted a couple tracks for recording audio, armed the SD midi channel for recording, and made sure I was getting signals from my Line 6 UX8 with a guitar.

The issue I am having only seems to be effecting that project. I will hit some drum pads on my Dm10, and there is a noticeable latency/delay from the time I hit any of the drum pads to the time the audio in SD is triggered.

When I start a new project in Reaper, and load SD up, there is no latency at all between the time I hit a drum pad to the time it triggers the audio.

Now, in Sony Acid, the only time this happened was when I did not have the Line 6 UX selected as the main audio device. That isn't the issue here, because the default audio device is the line 6 unit.

Any ideas what could be causing this?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 08, 2015 12:33 pm

I use BFD, but Supreme, but, my first thought is, are you loading the drums into a stereo track, or each drum into it's own track?

Each drum into it's own track I have sometimes had issues with, as a stereo track it's performed quiet well...

John
Member
Since: May 06, 2007


Mar 08, 2015 01:11 pm

I'm not sure I understand completely. I think I do, but not sure...

When you open SD 2.0, there is a mixer section in it. When you click on that, it is a full mixing board for all the drums, and all the sliders on that mixer are routed to the main stereo output - which would be the main outs of my UX8. This makes the entire drum mix goto the SD stereo output track on Reaper, which then goes to the Reaper master.

What I did was, is I opened SD 2.0's mixer and routed each drum channel from the main outputs, to separate tracks in reaper, so reaper's main mixing console has 20+ drum tracks on their own sliders.

I saved this routing setup as an SD preset, so when I started a new project in Reaper, I load SD and it's 32 tracks onto the mixing console. So the setup is exactly the same when i start a new project. In the new project, there was no lag at all when I hit drum pads on the DM10....

Hopefully I explained that correctly... ha.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Mar 08, 2015 01:20 pm

Hmmm, maybe this subject deserves a thread of it's own...but, when I open BFD as a BFD Instrument it asks me if I want to open it as a stereo track, or, a single mono track per drum.

Frisco's Most Underrated
Member
Since: Jan 28, 2003


Mar 08, 2015 02:06 pm

This post is good timing for me. I recently found a job that pays decently, and I definitely need to add some new pieces. I took my old music computer out of storage last August, and it wouldn't turn on. I've been too lazy to open it up and see if I can figure out what's wrong with it. I need an upgrade anyways, and I can afford it now. (I might wait another month, month and a half to build up a bit of financial emergency buffer first).

I'll probably open a new thread when I start looking for real, but I'm interested to know what people would suggest for a new computer... laptop or desktop... I have no idea what is normal as far as cores, OS, RAM etc. anymore. Anyways, I guess I have a bunch of research to do.

On a side note, I've picked up programming, and am in the process of (slowly) building a browser based synthesizer for the fun of it. We'll see how it goes.

Sorry for the thread hi-jack, but it's been a while since I posted, so I'm just letting everything go off the top of my brain. :)

John
Member
Since: May 06, 2007


Mar 08, 2015 02:26 pm

When i insert SD 2.0 it pops up a box that asks me if I would like to add 32 channels with it, but I have to re-route them manually.

John
Member
Since: May 06, 2007


Mar 08, 2015 07:32 pm

DB, I started a new thread with Reaper related questions... I am avoiding the latency ordeal with SD 2.0 for now, as we just decided to use Sony Acid to finish the tracking for drums. But I am confused on other issues. Let me know if you can take a gander at the other thread and help me out.

Thanks!

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