firewire vs usb?

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Member Since: Jan 18, 2003

hello old friends,

i'm finally getting around to getting that new computer. i debated whether to jump on an existing thread, but i didn't want to steal anyone else's question time, as selecting the right gear is important. so i hope you don't mind the new thread here.

i just started looking around, and i think i've decided to just deal with a known entity for actually buying the laptop, even if it costs more. there are too many places to buy and i just don't know what's legit. more, if the customization is left totally to me and me alone, i'm likely to blow it somehow.

anyway, i was looking at alienware laptops today (bad move or good, generally speaking?) but then i noticed that they don't have firewire ports. my friend once told me that if you're gonna go with an external interface, you definitely want firewire as opposed to USB.

how true is this? if it's true, then is there another base system you'd recommend? something that has a built-in firewire port?

sorry if these questions are totally naive. i've been out of it lately. music, i mean. also, how are you guys?

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Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Jan 14, 2013 07:10 am

forty? is that you, or some clever imposter?

While I more or less just wanted to say hi, I will say that firewire seems preferable due to it's greater ability to handle a lot of data for long periods of time. USB has improved a lot since it's first release, and USB 3 (I think the most recent) is close, but will choke a bit quicker than firewire.

That being said, it really depends on how you record. How many channels/tracks you are recording at any one given time.

If I recall, you are like me and tend to lean toward smaller bands and simpler recording needs. In which case USB is more than sufficient.

Rockstar Vatican Assassin
Member
Since: Mar 20, 2009


Jan 14, 2013 08:03 am

I was in that same dilemma 2-3 years ago.... decided to go Firewire. But even that was a pain in the arse cause I 'required' a TI chipset, which my embedded controller was not. Had to find a LeCie PCI card to get the MOTU working.

I think the issue with USB 2.0 was that the maximum throughput for that bus could never actually be achieved as where Firewire was close. So the stats were misleading.

USB 1.1 = 12 Mbit/s
Firefire 400 = 400 Mbit/s
USB 2.0 = 480 Mbit/s
FireWire 800 = 800 Mbit/s
USB 3.0 = 5 Gbit/s
eSATA = Up to 6 Gbit/s


Nowadays with USB 3.0, Firewire is somewhat dead; its almost impossible to find (as far as embedded controllers) on new motherboards too.

www.TheLondonProject.ca
Member
Since: Feb 07, 2005


Jan 14, 2013 12:55 pm

I hope to see HDMI audio interfaces some day.

HDMI - 10.2 Gbits

Byte-Mixer
Member
Since: Dec 04, 2007


Jan 14, 2013 01:25 pm

Except lightning bolt (AMD based off of USB 3) and thunderbolt (Intel/Apple based off of firewire), which is apparently TEH FUTUREZ!

Like Hippie mentioned, with firewire, you have to be careful of the chipset. Make sure the chipset is Texas Instruments or you might have some major headaches with stuff flaking out on you. I'm hosed on my laptop because it uses a cheapo JMicron chipset, and it was wreaking all sorts of havoc with my firewire mixer. (I ended up getting an 8-input portastudio to record live stuff)

The problem with my laptop, is that the JMicron chipset controls everything involving the firewire and the card reader. So even if I got a TI Firwire express card, it would go across the JMicron stuff, and thus not improve a damn thing.

I think USB3 would be the way to go at the moment. Better compatibility and more throughput. I think most music devices still use USB2, but with USB3, it's there if you need it, and AMD's lightning bolt port spec will be backwards compatible with it.

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


Jan 14, 2013 04:40 pm

So USB 3.0 is faster than Firewire? The machine I'm looking at has multiple 3.0 ports. Are there any sound cards that you can recommend that use 3.0, or are we still waiting for that to start happening?

Friend of mine had the chipset problem too. If USB is adequate, then I'm fine with it.

Hi dB. The most I will ever use it for is two audio ins at once -- two mics aimed at an acoustic. (And midi in, but that would happen in a separate take.)

Byte-Mixer
Member
Since: Dec 04, 2007


Jan 14, 2013 05:59 pm

I still don't know of big-name interfaces that use USB3. Maybe RME put something out last year? The more "pro-sumer" brands don't have anything USB3 that I know of.

Main reason, is USB2 is "good enough" for them, as it can handle a good amount of throughput for recording multi-track audio. Latency, of course, is a different subject, but related, and USB2 is capable of achieving decent latency.

However, supposedly, USB3 allows for "full-duplex" in the scope of audio transport, and that would allow for a higher channel count to make more use of the bandwidth. Plus USB3 would allow for more power to devices, so devices could possibly have more features when running straight off of a USB port....well....in theory anyway.

I think a lot of companies kind of glossed over USB3 and are looking more towards Thunderbolt, which is basically outboard PCIe. Lightning Bolt, is basically USB3 with DisplayPort, but supposedly can also power the laptop itself, which is something Thunderbolt cannot do. But with that going on, the actual throughput takes a hit, so it's not quite as fast as USB3, but faster than USB2.....at least from what I'm reading about this crap from various sources. (arstechnica, anandtech, endgadget, tom's, etc.) Also, being able to daisy-chain stuff via lightning bolt could be promising.

Or something like that anyway.

I dunno, maybe winter's NAMM will unveil something cool? (I know Moog is producing a 25-key analog synth that is a cross between the minitaur and the slim phatty, but they're calling it the Sub Phatty. But, unfortunately, it's suggested price is something like $1000, which is a bit crazy for a 25-key synth....even if it is Moog)

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


Jan 14, 2013 07:22 pm

hmm. well, i'm buying the computer this week and i'm worried about making a mistake. it's encouraging to hear that USB is good enough, but the latency thing you mentioned could be a dealbreaker. here in 2013, i just don't think i should be dealing with it, especially when i'm throwing all this money at a new system. decent latency is something i can't deal with anymore, haha. there has to be zero noticeable lag between input and output or else i quit forever. haha. if firewire's on its way out and USB isn't adequate, it's not clear what to do.

can anyone vouch for USB's latency? maybe even have a specific unit to recommend?

edit: "and AMD's lightning bolt port spec will be backwards compatible with it" -- you mean that a lightning bolt interface will be able to plug into a usb 3 port?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Jan 15, 2013 06:07 am

I've used the KB37 as a USB interface for a few years now and it's been very low latency, I can't quote a time off the top of my head, but it's certainly never been a problem...and it's USB 2.

MASSIVE Mastering, LLC
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2008


Jan 15, 2013 10:44 am

I would argue that even though the speeds (FW vs. USB2) might be in the same ballpark, FW has always seemed "more robust" (for lack of a better term).

THAT SAID -- If I were looking for a new interface today, I'd probably grab one of those hybrid MOTU units. The (896?) has a nice amount of I/O, S/PDIF and AES/EBU so you can use other converters, WC I/O if you want to use an external clock, etc.

RME would be a step up also (better overall circuitry, conversion, pres, etc.).

If you don't need tons of horsepower, USB will probably do you just fine. But having that FW port is nice when you need it (and the other way around if you're in that particular boat as well).

Rockstar Vatican Assassin
Member
Since: Mar 20, 2009


Jan 15, 2013 11:28 am

WHat MM said... you got the cash, why settle? Get the best of both options!!!

www.musiciansfriend.com/p...audio-interface

www.musiciansfriend.com/p...audio-interface

To put things in perspective though (regarding which connection makes the right choice). If you look at musiciansfriend's filter, there's only (39) 1394 audio interfaces and (107) USB 2.0 interfaces. Clearly, if USB latency/connection/throughput was an issue, you wouldn't see so many more USB choices! MOTU appears to be the only manufacturer to include both (ie.. the Hybrid).


Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Jan 15, 2013 08:36 pm

The difference, as I recall (and this may have been fixed in later versions), and, to MM's point, USB is more subject to be affected by other resources, as, often a PC has many USB devices...mouse, keyboard, external drives, printers and god only knows what else...USB is more affected by momentary bandwidth limits on the USB buss as a whole, affecting everything on it, that result in choking...Firewire is more isolated and not subject to such issues...

Again, that was true a few years back, some of that may have been fixed in USB 3...but, forty, it sounds like you record a lot like me, and I have never experienced such problems, but people that are recording multiple tracks while playing back multiple tracks, I have seen it happen.

Rockstar Vatican Assassin
Member
Since: Mar 20, 2009


Jan 16, 2013 08:35 am

I actually found a few 1394 to USB converters online... only problem is, the USB spec is still 1.1/2.0. I suspect 1394 to USB 3.0 may be available in the future. Doesn't help you now, but at least may be an option soon for Laptop shoppers who already own Firewire interfaces.

www.aliexpress.com/item/F.../704799815.html

Mans reach exceeds his grasp
Member
Since: Oct 23, 2007


Feb 04, 2013 12:48 am

I did some extensive research into USB and firewire recently while looking for a digital mixer i.e. M Audio Project Mix.

I came across an interesting article, which sited Steve Jobs, about firewire, its advantages, its demise, and why its dead. www.guardian.co.uk/techno...08/oct/17/apple

Although it made sense from a financial standpoint, I can't for the life of me understand why it ever was abandoned. Every other input we use is changing, even the way we use software is changing, I.E. Windows 8.

So why in the H E double didn't anyone try to refine, expand, and mainstream firewire when the advantages were prevalent?

Only three explanations come to mind. Laziness, three was too much already invested in USB or government.

I'm betting on the latter.

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