Mar 22, 2011 08:36 pm Can you back down the gain on all the tracks except for her track and the master bus? If you can't back off the gain, a quick fix might be to put her through a compressor.
More microphone volume?
Posted on Mar 22, 2011 06:31 pm
TLE sound guy
small time sound guy
Member Since: Mar 04, 2011
How can I get more microphone volume for my lead singer? She is at 8+ with the master at 8+ while everyone else on mics are at 4+. Can I just run her through a mic pre-amp and then run that into her channel on the board and run it as usual? Thank you for your advice.
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Mar 22, 2011 08:36 pm Can you back down the gain on all the tracks except for her track and the master bus? If you can't back off the gain, a quick fix might be to put her through a compressor.
Mar 22, 2011 08:54 pm yup, a compressor sounds like a good idea.
Mar 22, 2011 09:14 pm Hummm. A compressor in a live setting will reduce the over all volume.
The biggest thing is proper mic technique. She has to be right on top of the mic! Lips touching it. And, she needs to try and belt it out a little more. Signal in equals signal out.
Mar 22, 2011 09:19 pm yeah, but can raise the make up gain eh?
Mar 22, 2011 09:54 pm I a live setting, that could cause feedback. Plus, it would raise the noise floor.
Mar 23, 2011 12:48 am ah, see see.
Oh ****, absolutley! Yeah the rest of the band on stage would be friggin amplified big time.
Mar 23, 2011 11:12 am What I have noticed in doing this (lowering everything else but her) is that now when I try to bump the level up for overall volume, I can't get much more because then she tops out.
And yes, she pretty much swallows the mic already. and when she goes loud, she goes l-o-u-d! It's the normal to low range I am having troubles with. It seems to feedback when she starts to belt because the lvel is so high.
I really need to figure out how to bump her signal before the board?
Thanks.
Mar 23, 2011 12:04 pm It still sounds like a combination of mic technique and a compressor could help u out. Mic technique so taht shes not swallowing when shes loud and compressor to keep her even while shes moving in and out of the level she needs.
Mar 23, 2011 12:12 pm O.K. working on getting one as we type. Thank You!
P.S. what exactly does a mic pre-amp do?
Mar 23, 2011 02:02 pm Sorry I don't think I was specific enough. I meant that a soltuion would be to compress her vocals before going into the mixer. I still think that would be the best solution; especially since it sounds like her performance may be too dynamic. Quote:
What I have noticed in doing this (lowering everything else but her) is that now when I try to bump the level up for overall volume, I can't get much more because then she tops out.
Compressing the mix as a whole isn't what we're looking for; just the vocalist.
Mar 23, 2011 04:20 pm So I just 'insert' the compressor on her board channel, or run her through it into the XLR in on her channel?
Anyone on the mic pre-amp thing?
Mar 23, 2011 05:48 pm Just curious. What style of music (heavy/loud or acoustic/soft) and how much of a PA you got? If the PA is topping out because it's at the max I would assume not much can be done but turn down the instruments (i know i know, tough with drums ;). Just a thought, and a I could be wrong but I always hear about having headroom and this just seems to apply.
Rob can correct me if I'm wrong :)
Mar 23, 2011 06:25 pm Microphone->Pre-Amp->Compressor->main mix
That's how I would try it. Plenty of makeup gain on the compressor
Mar 23, 2011 07:05 pm Ya it is sounding like your PA is under powered for the application. If you have no more headroom left then you have a problem.
You "may" be able to work an EQ in there to help you with some gain and control the feedback (on her channel).
Rob would be the one to listen to on this.
BTW - pre-amp is exactly that... an amp that goes before an amp. It brings your mic up from mic level to line level (and sometimes provides phantom power).
Mar 23, 2011 09:32 pm If I get a mediocre compressor, can I use a mediocre pre-amp? Like a little one that only costs about $50? Or should I get the better rack mount one? Then:
Quote: Microphone->Pre-Amp->Compressor->main mix
Mar 23, 2011 09:34 pm P.S. we do a variety show, some loud and some soft. More country (Reba, Shania, Patsy) and oldies rock n roll (ex. Elvis, Bill Haley, etc.)
Mar 23, 2011 10:59 pm Well, putting a pre amp before the board. Bad idea!
The board is your pre amp. Raising the gain even more to the amp will only lead to distortion, and square waves. Plus an added bonus of more feedback.
On a Shure 58, you only get so much gain before you overrun any EQ structure and get nothing but feedback. Shure even gives you the formula for figuring out how much gain you can get before feedback.
Number of mic's on the stage divided by the distance to the closest speaker, equals gain. So, lets say the you have 5 vocal mics, and the closest monitor is only 6 feet away. So, gain would equal 1.5. If your look at you board, it should start out at +10 all the way down. (Or all the way to the left.) So, this will only pu the gain at around 9 - 10 O'clock. In other words....... Not much.
Now this is all before you EQ the monitors. Once you start to pull out frequencies out of the wedge, you can start to increase the gain of the mics. As pulling out frequencies will reduce the amount of gain going to the amp.
OK, now this does lead to what Beerhunter and CptTrips was stating as well. It does seem that you are out of headroom on the monitors. Meaning there is no more up you can go with causing issues. As your finding out by her swallowing the mic when she gets loud, and the mic taking off into feedback. Trying to make the mic louder before the amp, will only serve to make more feedback, distortion, and square waves. (Sorry to keep harping on this, but it's very important to know this fully.)
From what I'm reading from your responses, your singer has some VERY bad mic technique. She moves away from the mic when she sings softly, and towards the mic when she gets louder. When the opposite should be true. Most of this comes from the dramatic look this creates on stage. It looks cool, right?? So, trying to teach her the opposite is going to be a challenge. But, really should be done.
Along with proper mic technique, doubling the amount of monitors around her will help as well. This will raise the total volume by 3 dB. Which means that it will double the volume. Before doing so...... I will refer you to the Tech tips that wrote, and had you read before. To make sure that the ohm load and amount of wattage that the monitors can receive is there.
When all else fails....... Then the compressor comes into play. The compressor (When set correctly) will maintain an even level of volume from your singer. So, if she whispers, or screams. It will all be the same level. (In live sound, a compressor limits the signal, not raises it.)
So, in summery. Proper mic technique, with two monitors, with a 31 band EQ on the monitor mix, Should fix all of your problems. And if you just can't get her to use proper mic technique, then a compressor will help keep her in check.
Mar 23, 2011 11:34 pm One thing that was pointed out to me in school was to think about it like a balloon was placed over the microphone. The pre-amp gain was putting air in to the balloon. The balloon would get larger as more gain was added. If the balloon got so large that it would touch the monitors then you would get feedback. You want to keep that "balloon" to pick up only what it needs to. The proximity is all to important. If her technique has her pulling back then you need to inflate the balloon to hear her. It is much better to keep her in closer proximity to the mic. Have you experimented with a headset mic? She won't be able to run away from that!
PS - hard to explain the concept but I hope you get the idea
Mar 23, 2011 11:47 pm Very good analogy Beerhunter. One thing I would add to it, is the fact that the balloon is not round, but heart shaped.
The bottom of the heart faces your singer, and the top of the heart faces the monitor. So, if she tips the mic at all, the balloon starts to move towards the monitor. Leading to instant feedback.
Mar 24, 2011 12:09 am I guess one thing I should add to this, is the patterns of microphones.
www.audiomidi.com/content...c_patterns.aspx
Mar 24, 2011 12:14 am Ah yes, Cardioid forgot to mention patterns! Good call
Mar 24, 2011 01:00 am try a different mic maybe? i donno...something doesn't sound right here (pun intended)....or how 'bout pluggin' into a different channel on the PA...i'm just troubleshooting here.
Mar 24, 2011 01:26 am I was just looking over Shure's website for some info that I needed for an issue that I'm having at work. When I came across this PDF that is very good at explaining some fundamentals of live sound.
I though you might want to look it over some. It is just a touch math intensive. But, still worth a read.
www.shure.com/idc/groups/...ic_sound_ea.pdf
Mar 24, 2011 09:48 am Thanks, I'll take all of this in and get back with you all. Thank you soo much.
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