Guitar Questions

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Member Since: Sep 30, 2009

I know I'm asking a bit much out of the ole' epi les paul, but I'd like to be able to experiment a bit more with lower keys/tunings. Maybe as low as drop A# (as in, drop D 2 steps down), but likely I'd be happy just to get 1 step down. Right now I'm half a step down, using heavier strings. And to eliminate all the rattle i REALLY had to mess with the setup of the guitar. The intonation is quite terrible as a result. I'm much more familiar and comfortable with doing work on guitars now though.

I do realize that, to get the job done right, i'd really be better off buying a baritone guitar, and leaving this one near standard. But i'm hoping to hear your opinions here and see if what i'm asking is possible.

Lets say i got a new nut, changed string gauges, and got a pro set up; would that be a doable range, tuning my guitar that low? I reason that if i used a 7 string set, or one of the "uneven" string sets, it'd be doable even with a guitar like mine. Or would i be better off detuning the guitars with melodyne or something, and keeping it in standard drop D?

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Music is everything
Member
Since: Apr 01, 2010


Jun 14, 2010 10:59 am

Have you thought about just recording in standard tuning and lowering the pitch through your DAW? Just a thought. I haven't had any good experiences with a lower tuning because of fret buzz and lowered sustain.

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Jun 14, 2010 11:15 am

Turn it up real loud. Can't hear them strings rattle at all !

I think playing it in actual tuning your using gives you much more feel for the style.

I'm not a guitar setup type of guy though, so i'm just throwing out ideas.

Member
Since: Sep 30, 2009


Jun 14, 2010 11:23 am

Thats what i'm starting to think i might be better off doing... arrange songs in standard drop d (or use Pod Farms "bender" pedal for instant tuning). Then use melodyne to lower the pitch, i figure that'll sound pretty much how its supposed to. I might end up doing that. It would probably save me a lot of trouble.

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003


Jun 14, 2010 12:53 pm

I think that there's something inimitable about actually tuning the guitar down and sending that through your amp. Detuning it in software just doesn't capture that same growl or attack that you get when tuning down.

I never tune all my strings down, just my low E. I'm always tuning it down to D, C, C# or whatever, just to have access to that lowest note. I keep my regular string gauges and just play that string a little more gently. And that's mainly because it affects the string's pitch more than the buzz. But this saves me a bunch of adjustments on my LP. I only record electric with that one guitar for the most part so I have to keep it handy to play in standard tuning. I can't be spending an hour or two to readjust it all to play in C or D or whatever.

And actually pjk is right, most of the time when amplified, the string rattle and buzz isn't as pronounced. It's still there, but buried under distortion and all of the other sounds the guitar produces. Maybe the POD doesn't react the same way but even on a pretty buzzy day, I don't hear much of it coming thru the speakers except on cleaner settings.

Tim the Enchanter
Member
Since: Feb 17, 2008


Jun 14, 2010 09:26 pm

I think you might be okay tuning down as long as you use heavier gauge strings. I tune down to standard D and use .11 gauge strings and it sounds good. You could probably go with .12 gauge strings or maybe put a really heavy gauge string for your low A#. If you have a floating trem then you'll probably want to add a spring. But I guess you said you had a Les Paul, so you should be able to just re-intonate and be good. I'd say give it a try and see if the strings rattle. If it rattles too much, then tune it up a half step or two.

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007


Jun 14, 2010 09:57 pm

Is youre guitar 24 inch or 25.5inch scale?
A# is way too low for a guitar other than a baritone.

the lowest ive managed to go with a 25.5 inch is to drop B.
So the rest of the guitar is in C.
The strings dont seem to work good even in drop B so now im in drop C.

Its all about the scale length. Even a 7 string isnt gonna help much unless its a longer scale. Someone once told me that the 7 string strings were made to tune lower, but im not convinced. A string is a string mate. If they were made to be tuned low, then they'd have to be extra tough which would be a **** to play on the fingers.

The baritone is the way to go.
I actually tune mine to drop C but the baritone is made for concert pitch standard B.
Its sounds tight and nasty tuned this way though. its probably about to snap but hey, its sounds great.

Member
Since: Sep 30, 2009


Jun 14, 2010 10:50 pm

Gotcha, well. Thanks for the info! I agree with tad, tuning like that with melodyne just didn't have the same growl, even though its before my amp plug ins. And besides what i suspect is a bad fret way up high, most of the guitar strings don't rattle THAT much i suppose but...there's just something about it. I can tell isn't right. Especially while playing it. But i think that translates to the recording as well.

My guit's a 24 3/4 scale length. Chances are, one of these days I'll "acquire" a baritone guitar as my next large purchase (then maybe a tele...gosh those things on clean sound beautiful!) A few years wait likely, but eh. I'll just have to work with what I've got now. Strain my voice a bit :P fudge the limits with vocal processing for the occasional out-of-range note.

Any recommendations on the string gauge, or heck, even the exact brand/set of strings after the set up? Just in case my guitar tech isn't the type to recommend something :P Drop C tuning, 24.75 inch scale.

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007


Jun 15, 2010 12:22 am

i use 11 to 52 gauge. i find the thicker ones too muddy and hard to use.

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003


Jun 15, 2010 03:05 pm

One thing to watch out for when upping your string gauge is your nut. If you go too wide, the string won't sit all the way down in the nut slot and when tuned to pitch, it can force its way down into the nut slot and break your nut (ouch!). I did this to a friend's Tele when I strung it with 11-52 strings (they come from the factory set for 9-42 or 48 or whatever standard low E is for a set of 9s). The low E string didn' fit in its respective nut slot and the nut broke right in the middle of that slot. So that's one 'gotcha' to watch for when using heavy gauge strings.

The way to remedy this is to file the slot so that it's wider. But you don't want it too wide or else the string will slide back and forth in there and make it tough to stay in tune. And don't accidentally make the slot deeper or else you can introduce buzzing problems.

That said, I use 11-52 strings in standard tuning on my LP with no problems and no adjustments to the stock nut (again, factory set for 9-48ish). I just had to adjust the truss rod, action, and intonation to accomodate the heavier strings and my heavy picking style.

I'd recommend buying the gauge string you want and take it to a tech to have them installed and the guitar setup to accept the new gauge of strings. You'll be way happier with the results and you'll save yourself all of the frustrations of making these relatively large adjustments yourself.

Around the KC area, $35 + the cost of strings is a pretty standard price for a total setup. I've heard of them running all the way up to $75 or more though. Ask first, and make sure you understand what all the tech's intentions are for a setup. Some techs do more than you'd want and might replace a piece that you don't want replaced just because it was "part of their normal setup".

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Jun 15, 2010 03:08 pm

And nobody likes a busted nut...

somebody had to say it...

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003


Jun 15, 2010 03:12 pm

Tee hee. There was no good way to put it...

Pinnipedal Czar (: 3=
Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004


Jun 16, 2010 08:45 am

I busted my nut once... just once. lol

Anyway, the guy I work with plays hardtail Epis and drops 'em down to A, without issue. I know he uses those Ernie Ball Hybrid strings... it sounds good! I personally, just cant wrap my head around that tuning.

Member
Since: Sep 30, 2009


Jun 16, 2010 10:25 am

Thanks for the info tad! I'll try and keep all my nuts in one piece! And really hue? Wow. It just doesn't seem to be working for me for some reason. The tuning itself, mostly the thing for me is just playing a song in the way that best fits my voice. Although there does seem to be a certain growl about notes that low in some of my favorite songs.

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006


Jun 16, 2010 12:27 pm

I have done drop C on my 24" if I use the 60 guage, me no likey.

http://www.unitedmusicians.info
Contributor
Since: Nov 11, 2007


Jun 16, 2010 06:46 pm

Is it the guitar or the bass that's giving you that low, growly impression that you want to recreate?

I'm playing the exact same guitar note the whole time in the Truck Commercial song in my profile. The bigness of the recording comes across when I started droning on the root note with a lightly overdriven Jag style bass the whole time. There's also a bass melody in there, but the heavy-ness is mostly due to that simple, one note bass line.

Member
Since: Sep 30, 2009


Jun 16, 2010 08:12 pm

Mm, i'm pretty certain its the guitar. The tone really isn't the biggest thing for me though. Its just playing the same song in a few different keys and seeing what *fits* best with my voice. But, in the end, I'll do what i can do with what i have right now.

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007


Jun 16, 2010 09:15 pm

Go the bluegrass tuning!! In C. every 2nd string is C

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