Do I need a new computer or a new audio interface to fix this?!?!
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Posted on Feb 21, 2010 08:58 pm
Indellable
Music Afficionado
Member Since: Aug 12, 2008
I have a Mac G5 with NON-INTEL dual 2ghz prcessors and 4GB of RAM.
My soundcard/audio interface is a focustire saffire.
I run Digital Performer.
I've noticed when I start stacking multiple plug-ins or specific ones that use a lot of power (i.e. autotune or harmonizers) that I start getting "clicking" all over the place. Buffer size was set at 512 and it gets a little better when I moved to 256 then 128 (if I try to move to 64 it just locks up my whole computer). The clisking is so bad you can hear it on the monitors but it also sticks around even when I bounce out the files. If I take away enough plug-ins it goes away.
When I record, iTunes is generally the only other program running other then Finder and System Preferences (pretty sure you cant turn these off).
I do use Sends for things like reverb but apply compression and EQ to individual tracks as I was told this is the correct way to do it.
When I use autotune or harmonizers I put these on individual tracks also.
Is this a pre/post insert issue? Is that the right term? Should I be appying plug-ins differently? If anyone has a good thread on this - please share.
Obviously my computer is not able to process all of this. However, is this a computer issue or a soundcard issue? Please say soundcard, please say soundcard....
Thanks.
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Feb 21, 2010 09:08 pm Try upping the buffer size. You shouldn't need a new computer to fix this. You said it improved when you lowered the buffer, i think that was just a fluke of some time. Increasing the buffer will put less load on your CPU. As long as you don't need to monitor any more sounds to record (like a midi part you need to play on the keyboard rather than just writing it in, or a modeled guitar) then i'd up my buffers as high as the soundcard will go.
Also. When you have a track sounding nice, freeze it. that'll take the load off of the CPU, becuase it will "re-record" the track with all of the autotune in there. and then the autotune will be relieved from your CPU.
Those are the 2 simplest ways to save resources. If you do need to get a new soundcard with faster ASIO drivers, the line 6 Toneport gear works well. It has way less latency than my M-Audio fasttrack pro had. like, 50 times less latency. And if you need a computer upgrade, you'll need to replace its processor. But like i said. you shouldn't need any upgrades at the moment. Just try and save resources.
IndellableMusic AfficionadoMember
Since: Aug 12, 2008
Feb 21, 2010 09:23 pm Thanks for the reply. 2 questions:
1.) When I increase the buffer size - will that creat latency when people record? Any other drawbacks? If not, I would have no problem with switching the buffer size back and forth when recording vs. mixing.
2.) Can you explain what you mean by freezing the track?
Thanks!
Feb 21, 2010 09:39 pm 1) Nope. Thats the only drawback. It has to deal somehow with your processor being pushed harder when you have low buffers. I believe thats the reason. So most people record with low latency if they're using midi or need to monitor their sound like guitar amp modelers. If you are recording using all mics, DI's and any "real" audio sources, you shouldn't even need your buffers to be small. But if you do use midi or monitoring, just record low, with little or no processing, then mix high with the processing.
2) freezing a track basically means your DAW creates another WAV file of the track, but with all the processing included. That file is stored in a "freeze" folder. Then since it has all the processing included, you don't need the processing running anymore. So your DAW should relieve itself of the processing. And your MAC should be running at the same capacity as if there were no processing on that track. I'm wording things pretty badly, but hopefully you understand. Idk if your DAW has a freeze function or not. Most DAWs do, i assume. It may be called something other than freeze. Look into your manual to find out.
IndellableMusic AfficionadoMember
Since: Aug 12, 2008
Feb 21, 2010 09:54 pm Thanks for the reply - looking forward to giving both a try!
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Feb 22, 2010 12:40 pm I would set up effects group/bus, to send your tracks to. I don't know why you wouldn't want to, as this creates 1 effect, that multiple tracks can use. Guys over on the reaper board do this religiously, so I'd not be afraid to do so. You could also put the reverb / others on the master out, but effects bus may be better.
Then you can adjust the amount each track uses of the effect bus.
Like, set up a new effect bus, called reverb. Add your reverb to this, then create sends for all the tracks that you want to use that reverb.
Now you only have 1 reverb running, but many tracks can use it, plus they all sound like they're tracked in the same 'space'.
SOUNDCARD!
hah, actually, i highly doubt the soundcard is slowing you down. If you can find a performance monitor type thing in OSX, maybe you can see if there's things getting taxed out.
I've not seen DP, so I don't know how that would operate, hopefully it's easy to find.
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Feb 22, 2010 03:52 pm I would definitely turn Itunes off while tracking.
IndellableMusic AfficionadoMember
Since: Aug 12, 2008
Feb 22, 2010 03:53 pm Thanks pjk. I do have 2 busses that I use for reverbs. One I use mainly for verses and the second for hooks (not only so they sound a bit different but so they are pulling seperately when they overlap which a lot of verses and hooks tend to do at the beginning and end).
I prefer to do this rather than putting it on the master so I have more control and so all the instruments arent going through the same reverb.
My problem is for plug-ins that (as I understand it) should be applied to the individual tracks, i.e. EQ & Compression. They reccomend that you use autotune and harmonizers on the individual tracks too.
I didnt think it was the soundcard, but was hoping it was. been looking for an excuse to replace it anyway but think I just need to break down and get an intel based Mac.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Feb 22, 2010 05:13 pm That makes sense now. I sounded like ALL effects were on their tracks, not in groups. And yes, you wouldn't want EQ or Comp in a group, cause then all tracks pointing to it would be affected. Not what you'd want, I'd guess =).
So, i guess other fix-its would come into play: freeze, drop itunes (certainly), buffers.
many people track stuff at a lower buffer setting (say, 64, 128, 256 samples) so the person can hear the pre-recorded tracks without delay (or much of one). Then, when they start the mixing process, you don't have to match incoming to outgoing (which is where latency is noticed) so they set the latency up to 1024 or more. This will incur a slight pause, but you'll not notice, because you've got nothing to match it up against.
Freeze is also possible if you render, or 'print' a track with it's effects. Then you get a new WAV file, that's all the track and effects in one. Drop the original track, or mute it, or whatever, so it's not being processed and taking CPU cycles. If you do this with 10 tracks, you'll get a ton of CPU back.
Just don't delete the original. DP probably has some nice features for this, as I know it's a quite nice program (i've heard/read). Reaper has stems, but no actual 'freeze' feature, from what I gather. haven't needed it yet, as my projects are pretty slim.
Hope you get it worked out =).
IndellableMusic AfficionadoMember
Since: Aug 12, 2008
Feb 24, 2010 09:10 am Update: So I increased the buffer size from 512 to 1024 and then 2048. Clicking seems to get WORSE. Its so weird, it actaully gets better when I move to 128. Like I mention, if I move it to 64 though, it keeps playing everything but the MAC equivalent of an hourglass appears and I cant do anytihng. I am forced to manually shut down and restart. The only thing I can think of is moving it to 64 and bouncing out the session without playing it first. Then switching it back to 512. This is so frustrating.
The other thing I mentioned earlier is that the clicking remains on the bounced out file - this is the part that puzzles me. Is this right?
I guess I have to look into a freeze feature. Although, I talked to engineer who is much more familiar with DP and he didnt think there was that feature. Instead, he said, DP only enables a plug-in when its actually used. For example, if you had a reverb assigned to a crash that only hits 4 times throughout the song, it will only draw on that reverb when its actually needed.
If its not one thing, its the other...
IndellableMusic AfficionadoMember
Since: Aug 12, 2008
Feb 24, 2010 12:12 pm ANOTHER Update: So I found the Freeze feature in DP and it worked like a charm - thank you so much. I have to run to work so I didnt have much time to play around but I'm assuming when I bounce the session will it bounce the frozen tracks now?
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Feb 24, 2010 01:43 pm When you bounce it should capture everything from the master output soo.... if frozen tracks are being referenced I would assume they would be included. That's how audition does it anyway.
Raising the buffers causing more clicks/pops, that is just weird.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Feb 24, 2010 03:23 pm Quote:
Raising the buffers causing more clicks/pops, that is just weird.
Agree, i don't know why that would happen. Not nice.
As to freeze, it's kind of a 'general' term, though some programs actually call it that directly. Glad you got a solution for that part, at least (finding a freeze).
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Feb 24, 2010 07:08 pm One more thing to try is something like ASIO system link or FX Teleport. Look those up on Google and see if you can get something like that working if you have an extra old computer laying around somewhere. All you need is an old junker of a computer and a home network and you can put that to work running your VST plugins while your main DAW gets to enjoy the offloaded processing power.
