Couple quick things on technique
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Posted on Dec 01, 2009 02:33 am
Fragile
Member Since: Sep 30, 2009
I'm still experimenting around with how i'd like to go about tracking (and lucky me... the song i'd spent the past 2 weeks recording and just started mixing was lost when my hard drive was corrupted and wiped >:[ so i get all kinds of new practice. Oh boy!)
Anyway, what do you guys typically do? Like if there's say a rhythm guitar playing threw half the song, do you play that entire section of the song over and over and over until you get a take that sounds just perfect? Divide it up by sections (verse-chorus etc). Or play 4 bars but make those the best damn 4 bars ever so there's no audible clicking.
Also, panning again. say i've got 2 rhythms hard panned (80), then a picked guitar (not lead, just sort of arpeggio) comes in over top. I sort of have this tendency in my head saying "It has to be center!! otherwise it'll sound weird cuz one speakers getting more!" and i've been combating that tendency, panning it right a little (like 40ish) but i just wanna clarify that tendency isn't correct.
Lastly, condenser mic vocals. For some reason i've really been liking to get VERY close to it. say.. 3 inches on my lower, softer register. But of course staying the same distance away when i start really pushing my voice its distorting a bit. Should i just record different registers differently, like back away from it when i get louder? or should i record the whole thing back a little. Most pics i've seen show people at least like 6 inches away, so i feel like i'm getting it wrong.
Whoops, one more thing. Recording vocals in general. I started developing a technique last shot at recording this, but i'm not sure how good it really is. I'm a total perfectionist, so i've been singing the same passage, like the first verse, over and over. and then spliting it line for line, choosing the best sounding take for each line. Is that typical?
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cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Dec 01, 2009 02:58 am This is probalby one of those cases for teh argument against having artists produce their own records, as a player u dont wanna get bogged down in the details
i say for vox guitar or watever, play thorugh as if u were performing, coz thats the point, to capture a great performance. I there are things u have to punch up later thats fine but dont feel like u have to fix every single little thing. Listen to ur song as a whole and just make sure that the performance is translating. I there is a huge problem that distracts u from the song ofcourse u have to fix it.
This is especially true with vocals coz ur usually saying words and unlike instruments everyone has sung a bit in their life and talks and they can tell when something is very manufactured vs. organic. Ppl do splice performances together of vox but i wouldnt record everything part by part just for splicing. record whole verses and choruses as perfromances and do tons of takes even if u nail it, then splice those takes together if needed, it will be much more organic sounding.
the mic distorting, thats a technical thing and u could probably fix that by setting ur mic gain better for how u use the mic (or develop ur mic using technique over time) compressors n such. These should all help u to perform, not make u perform a certain way to appease them.
as for panning, i wouldnt fear too much about the whole unbalanced thing, if thats how the song is then thast how it is, if it works then great if not then sure start to move stuff aruond the pan field or automate levels to compensate for the introduction of a new guitar part in one speaker. but in reality u realize if u were watching a band, if one of the guitarists started playing from stage left, thats where u would hear him from and u wouldnt feel it was weird so its totally allowed.
in the end, studio tools should allow u to amplify ur performance to basically ur best night performing. if the tools start to create arbitrary rules for ur performance then its counterproductive
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Dec 01, 2009 03:01 am On panning I don't think there will be a typical for those extra parts, whatever sounds good. The contast between the two different speakers may be just the thing.
On laying guitars, I play the whole thing over and over until I get it at least 95% right and then punch those in, perfect take is best of course :) I am anal and usually do at least 30 takes before I feel warm enough unless just dinking around.
Condensor, I get that close on really really really soft stuff. If the chorus is loud and proud, I record it seperate on it's own track instead of trying to back in and out.
On vox, I don't split line for line but it's not unheard of at all. I retake a verse until I like it, then I double it. Then... I go back and do the first take again as I always seem to sing better with a double playing along.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Dec 01, 2009 04:34 am i agree whith crux on the line splitting. for it would depned on the music style, but yer gonna get an unnatural feel if you do that.
i would go verse for verse and chorus for chorus. gives you the chance to put in full expression and feel.
vocal level etc can be handled with a compressor as an insert on your track and used while recording to stop clipping in your monitoring
if its wrong and squashing the signal too much, then you can adjust it later.
Im pretty sure you can anyway, someone might wanna elaborate on this.
i havent sat down and had a good look at this yet
for compressing, but after recording a track, double click your wave and bring up the wave editor, if you have alook down the left side of things you'll see a % symbol in amongst the level increments, click on that and you can change it to dB.
having that there is pretty cool i think because you can workout a pretty good idea of how much you wanna compress, even better, its something to work off visually, i think this way, eventually, you'd be able to get the compression in the ballpark first time everytime.
you'll need to look at the peaks and the meat of the wave and figure out how much needs compressing of those peaks by eye (eventually) and then just use the increments to type into your compressor.
at first though, it'll be by eye, by ear, by eye, by ear, till it sounds good.
after a while you'll be able to do it by just looking at the wave and the increments.
does anyone else do this???
having the acoustic dead centre will be bringing it out front more and could cover or muddy up frequencies residing in the middle or even get muddied out itself.
whether you want that or not is the question.
Izzy Dutch'The Flying Dutchman'Member
Since: Jan 11, 2006
Dec 01, 2009 01:49 pm With laying down guitars, bass or vocals, I believe in what is live. I'll never ever record a piece of guitar and copy/paste it to the rest of the song. I'll only restart a take if I screw up big time or forgot what part's next, usually it's done within 3 takes. I can't stand to spend too much time recording something, I prefer it fresh and fast cause else it takes away the fun. I could also never re-record or remix a song I wrote, to me there's no excitement in it anymore. After something's finished it's no looking back, just on writing a new stuff.
With panning, I simply pan away parts while the song is playing until it sounds right.. which can take either 5 seconds or 5 minutes. Then when it's panned right I'll change the volume if needed.
Dec 01, 2009 02:21 pm Thanks guys. I know this is more of a personal issue, everyone does things slightly differently, there's no right or wrong. But your advice certainly saved me months of tinkering realizing what to do here.
Man. I like midi better lol. Everythings so simple ;]
I'll keep experimenting though, keeping in mind more flow and performance. The keeping different vocals on different tracks is probably a good idea as well. Where do you guys usually keep your mic gain at? 12 o clock or so?
Thats a lot of info, i'll need some time to let it really sink it. Thanks so much though :]
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Dec 01, 2009 06:16 pm 12 to 2 for me, lower noise and I just make it up in my DAW later.
olddogMember
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Dec 03, 2009 01:59 am I usually record the take all the way thru until I get an acceptable take, be it vox, guitar, drums, etc. I'm not above comping takes though, especially drums. :) For vox though I will sometimes do it verse by verse if it's a real belter, like say when I did "Slow Down" , I simply couldn't sing it all the way thru without resting my voice
On panning like the instance you mention, I just try to find another part to balance out the field. I do find it distracting listening to songs that aren't balanced in the stereo field and worst case fatiguing to listen too.
With the mic, I think you have to work a mic like anthing else, if you need to be close to get the sound you're looking for then do it, and back off when you need too to keep the levels in line. But whatever method gets you the sound you want thats what you should use, there is no wrong or right as long as you get the results you're looking for. That pretty much goes for any of it, it's not how you got there, just the results.
Dan
McMerkinHobbyist musician,pro recorderMember
Since: May 15, 2007
Dec 04, 2009 02:34 pm In the old days, with a 4 track Teac, by necessity I would always have to play through a track pretty much perfectly, one take, since I had no way to punch in while playing and it would click audibly anyway. After doing 20 takes of the same thing I usually went with an inferior take because I got impatient and wanted to move on. So some of my older stuff has awful mistakes left in, mixed into the basic track and forever left to haunt me.
But now with a computer, unlimited tracks (more or less) I definitely will track a part over and over and edit the best together. Why not? I wish I'd had that capability years ago. Now I can pick and choose and not have to erase an otherwise excellent take with an error in it, just retrack and insert an error free edit piece.
I love it! Of course now I accumulate 1000 tracks. :D
Panning is always a personal preference and there IS nothing wrong with centering the lead vocal or instrument, with backing vocals off to the side. No need to fight your natural instincts. There IS no "right" way to record music, really. Depends on the song and the artist.
Ultimately you can try different mixes and see what appeals the most. Sorry to hear about losing your fiorst efforts though. THAT hurts.
Oh, and the mic? That is a technique you would do well to learn...condensers especially are sensitive and add a lot more bass response close up, so it's good for quiet parts. But in general as a singer you want to 'work' the mic, back away when getting harder at singing, and move closer when you're not, then compress the whole vocal track when finished for a smoother flow. It's pretty easy to get used to doing and prevents a lot of later problems when mixing down.
Dec 04, 2009 03:05 pm Thanks for the info :] Thats the way i see it too, who cares how it was done as long as it sounds the way you want it. And for me its not so much about capturing the live performance, simply because i'm one man over here and i'm going to try getting into a lot more sampling techniques and theatrical stuff (though the song i'm working on right now was a colab, and is more of a "real" band feeling, but still i'm looking for ways to get my overall technique as best as it can).
Thanks for the tip on the condenser mic as well. Just out of curiosity, how far away do most people keep a pop filter from the mic, and then how close should my mouth typically be getting to the filter? I'd really just like some starting points to reference to as i experiment.
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Dec 05, 2009 03:43 pm Cool thread!
Quote:
if thats how the song is then thast how it is
Thankyou crux! This applies to so many answers of the questions regarding the recording of music, in general.(you also typed it exactly how I say it. lol)
Really though... Write a song that is able to be performed in any situation. A song that will hold its own with a 'guy and an acoustic-guitar/piano', and everything else will follow as it should, naturally... also, everything that follows will be accouutrement to the song, not something that will distract from the 'core song'.
McMerkinHobbyist musician,pro recorderMember
Since: May 15, 2007
Dec 06, 2009 12:25 am I confess I do not use a pop filter, though I do have a windscreen on the condenser to keep moisture out. I think what you might want to do is simply rather than try and codify these distances and such upfront, as with so many sound issues, you need to experiment and listen to figure out what works best for you.
Just amplify your voice, practice singing and see how it sounds to you...does your voice drop too much if you lean back? Do you get too much bass or distortion if you get too close? Get a 'feel' for the movements you make while singing, basically like muscle memory to where you automatically back up a bit for loud singing and get just close enough for softer phrases...all automatically without really thinking about it. Mic technique is important for singing, though we are of course just goofing around.
Good luck!
