May 06, 2009 08:14 pm well what mic and how old would be my first questions for you?
just a quick couple of questions
Posted on May 06, 2009 07:58 pm
Dematrix
http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member Since: Nov 27, 2007
Im doing a recording at a mates house and am having a little trouble dialing in the guitar.
im micing the cab, its heavy distorted, and the trouble im having is i cant get good clean clarity on the trem picking or fast stuff.
i dont usually have this problem doing my own stuff, to the point i just roughly put the mic where i want it and all is good.
1. does this sound like just a mic placement thing?
2. does anyone place the mic whilst on average vol and then crank it up a bit?
or would you excpect to have to reposition the mic again if doing that?
the playing is tight but the edges seem to be blury and indefinate.
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May 06, 2009 08:14 pm well what mic and how old would be my first questions for you?
May 07, 2009 09:42 am Yeah, what mic? I don't see a SDC in your list, that may be the missing ticket, though I would think a 57 would do.
Is the room bad? you could be mushing up your signal with very quick reflections. This will muddy clean edges, that your brain says aren't there when listening direct, but when listening to tape, it's noticeable.
May 07, 2009 10:37 am yeah i think the general feeling here is we dont really have enough info to help you out here, try giving us as much random detail, little things make the biggest difference with these things :)
May 07, 2009 07:13 pm now that you mention it the room is crapy yes f sure.
Im using a 57, tis in my gear list, i think.
the room is quite big and potentially echoey, its got brick kinda tiles (which i put some carpet on under the cab).
i usually put the mic up to the grill but this time i pulled it back a bit too so yep im guessing the room reflections are doing it.
dint think of the room so much. being such a close mic but oh well will try it closer and see. i may try moving the cab to another room. bit of messing around but hey.
May 08, 2009 08:41 pm Deon, in the case of the room it might not be that bad really. Your just not getting a good capture.
I do suggest putting the 57 about an inch in from the outside edge of the speaker cone. Don't angle it directly toward the center of the speaker though. Maybe just a tiny bit of angle toward the center of the cone.
Then if you have an LDC handy try placing that about3 to 6 feet away from the cab about 1.5 meter or so up from the floor.
Make sure and check for phase at that distance as well and adjust a bit if you have to.
Then mix to taste to get a bit of the room without cutting the edge or bite off the sound of the guitar. And remember, it doesn't have to be super loud. Just enough to get the tone.
May 09, 2009 07:35 am Deleted By Deon
May 09, 2009 08:16 am i really gotta learn to make a long story shorter, ok Noize, will do.
my problem is the guitars are too transperant.
this could be from a millions things im doing wrong.
i know distorted guitars are already compressed but i can see where compression could come in handy here.
i have to set the mic pre so it doesnt clip, which is when doing heavy palm mutes, but then when im not doing those and just playing, the mic pre is being driven at around -3 to -5 db coz ive set it for heavy muting.
i think my issue could be that, im not sure, the mutes arent too bad sound wise, but the steady state is *** weak.
anyway ive all these big expectations and i dont know what the **** im doing. ha ha ha.
its not really that funny though.
anyway i will upload half the song and you might see what i mean then, or you might ask me what the hell im on about.
May 09, 2009 09:22 pm was somethin wrong with the upload but its all good now.
May 09, 2009 09:33 pm Did you upload it yet? Whats it called?
May 09, 2009 09:34 pm its called "tirade"
May 09, 2009 09:58 pm Cool, if I don't catch it yet tonight I'll get it tomorrow.
May 10, 2009 05:10 pm To be honest the thickness is there for sure. It just needs to be filled out with some bottom end with that crunch. Its got a very good tone going but I think the mix simply needs to have more lower freq. in the drums and even the guitar could use some.
I think if you added a bass guitar in the mix you would find it isn't as transparent as you think.
May 10, 2009 06:03 pm ok thanks for that Noize, you know i really appreciate all the help you've given me since i came here, it makes a big difference.
there is bass guitar in there, i think maybe i turned it down a little because it was taking more edge off the guitars. im gonna redo the guitars properly today for the song. im also gonna borrow a marshall stack for extra layering too.
basicly, i just gotta get the amp sound better than its is right now before recording. take out the fuzz and mud and add some low, so i can get it up in there.
thanks again.
will post that same bit again when i do some more gits.
May 10, 2009 07:31 pm To tell the truth, the guitar sound is good. I'm assuming that is a single layer you have recorded there. So filling it out with finding the spot the bass fits in with a bit EQ will fill in the mix nicely. I would if it were me simply add the Marshall to the mix and see what you get there.
I don't really hear a lot of mud in the sound either to be honest.
May 10, 2009 09:17 pm yeah it seems to sound better on different speakers actually, there are 6 layers of guitar there though.
the bass sound is really good, so will definatley bring it out when i mix, and put some vox on it. the marshall for sure will just have a squiz and see how it fits, like you say.
May 10, 2009 09:23 pm Are the layer's simply copied tracks though or are they all completely separate takes?
If it is 6 separate takes then I would try to find a way to make each one more defined and that as well will add to the thickness of it.
But ya, getting the bass more defined will really kick in some low end to the mix.
May 10, 2009 09:29 pm all separate, i changed the speaker and mic posi for each take, and also changed guitars, basicly nothing was the same ever, tis why i wanted to take a look at the Marshall as well.
i have since found out a thing or two abbout my mic pre i dint know about which will colour the sound more.
i have a bad habit of skimming to much bass off everything though, gotta stop that.
cool as, i will post my results soonish.
May 11, 2009 01:51 am I agree with Noize, the guitar sound is there, just need to get the bass coming thru. I really don't hear a bass at all in my phones.
Dan
May 11, 2009 04:41 am ok, done some serious guitar work today, and bumped up the bass, maybe too much i dunno, my speakers arent too bass responsive.
but i put the new complete version in my profile and i think its pretty freakin G-D fat.
there's alot going on in this song already so tis a tad difficult, "for me at least" to get everything to shine thru.
i dont think ya can in a song like this have everything shinning all the time, ya gotta sacrifice it seems, some things here and there..
there's still vox, sound effects, and some guitar fills to go yet, but im confident.
songs still called Tirade in me prof.
get one last listen before i **** the whole thing up. ha ha ha
thanks guys.
May 11, 2009 05:53 am www.homerecordingconnecti...sic&id=6372
look at that eh? geez im good to you guys.
May 11, 2009 05:13 pm I fixed your link Deon. It was using the generic format that would just bring a user to their own page. Its good to go now though.
And no, the bass is not too much now. Just getting to the good point. The guitars sound good, crisp and defined for this type of fast playing. I would try and get the bass guitar up a tiny bit more though if you can. And get that kick a little more wallup to it if you can. It might just be the reverb on the drums is making them sound a bit distant. They are very present in the mix, just sounding a bit far off if that makes sense.
May 11, 2009 07:54 pm well its funny, either maybe ive been sitting there mixing too much, or again, my speakers arent good to my ears.
there's actually no rebverb or effects on anything yet, which i guess could b the reason the guitars are a bit out there and not blending.
i thought the bass sounded pretty loud and the kick the same, the wallup you mentioned sounds like its there to me.
im really starting to think my speakers arent up to it. even when i bring the song out to the other computer the punch changes. my mix room should be all good as ive put bass traps and what not everywhere and it pretty small.
can i ask you this Noize?
my computer monitor screen is smack in between the speakers, could that be wrecking the stereo image?
the speakers are either side and inline with the monitor, filling the hole
there between the speakers.
if i can just get this sorted i think i'll be a happy little swine ya know. its been on my mind for months.
i been thinking, nah, its nothing, stop looking for excuses, you just suck still.
May 11, 2009 10:04 pm To get the best sonic picture from the monitor's they should be in an equilateral triangle with your head being the third point of the triangle. So the space between each point should be as close to equal as possible. I know in many cases it isn't possible. But getting it as close as possible is the key. And make sure they are pointing toward your head and not straight out to ge the best picture.
And unless the video monitor is sticking out front of the monitor's that should not effect the sound of them either.
AS for the mix itself. All the stuff is there and can be heard for the most part. Its just were it all sits in the mix. AS I stated, the drums just have a bit of a distant sound to them as does the bass guitar.
Lemme take a louder listen tomorrow and get back to ya. I might have a better idea after a good loud listen.
May 11, 2009 10:28 pm ok Noize cheers, i really value this opinion for a number of reasons, 2 of them being, i just listened to it on a decent stereo and im quite chuffed with the result and if there is something off some where i wanna know why/how/when and what to do etc.
and also, comments coming for your end mean alot, you have the experience, i dont, simple.
playing it here off a cheap CD the drums and bass sound more than loud enough, maybe even bordering on a little too loud.
im interested in hearing what you reckon after you ave another listen, so i can figure out what's happening.
could converting it to MP3 be doing something?
May 12, 2009 05:59 pm OK, I think I've got it nailed down.
I think what is happening is that the bass is there, but there is no attack sound of it. The low frequency is there but it is more pad like and there is no distinguishable attack that I can hear when amongst the guitars. So finding a Frequency that will help get the attack sound out would help. That could simply be using a different pickup to record it or not messing with the low EQ so much and working the lower mids and mids. I never touch the bass track going in with anything. I find that sound and let it go in.
The guitars, I'm liking more as this goes along. There are a couple spots that a bit brittle, but I am figuring it sounds like that as the bass isn't present and attacking during those parts.
On the drums. I figured out what is bugging me about them, or the kick I should say. This is opposite of the bass guitar. The kick is all attack sound and not much meat or ring of the drum. I am hearing more beater smack then anything and that is what is making me think the kick isn't powerful enough. So in yer drum thingy dial the beater back a bit and give it more of the body or boom of the drum. But don't dial the beater all the way back. Just until you get a god thud going so it fits better with that type of music.
On the mp3 thing. Hell ya an mp3 can muck up a good mix in a heartbeat depending on the converter and the settings as well.
Let me know what your using and the settings your exporting the mp3 at.
But the more I keep listening to this the more I am liking it.
May 12, 2009 07:39 pm excellent Noize thanks for that.
these are things fixed very easily.
the bass sound i have is actually some of the best bass ive ever captured, i did a DI, and miced the cab going in on seperate tracks so there's absolutely no worries geting it to stand out. Im not a big fan of the bass sticking out too much, but i can get it to, and make it sit in there ok.
on the kick. again i totally know what you mean there too. i actually dialed the bass freq of the kick right down because i thought it was just sticking out too much. but yeah i could definatley change the compression to a not so fast an attack and maybe a longer release??? is that what you mean? so im getting more of the drum sound itself?
again we come to EZDrummer possibly maing that a tad harder than you'd expect, but i can definatley give it a shot, maybe using the BFD2 kick might work. The EZ kick is very, very punchy, its got a thud to it i cant stand.
Thnaks again Noize, will post the complete version with vox etc, im hoping in a couple of weeks, shulnt take too long, im not figuring im gonna have to do too much to it reverb or effects wise.
May 12, 2009 09:25 pm Deon, I'll get back to this tomorrow. Time to finish a project and get it uploaded before midnight.
But on the kick thing. Ya, that might be just the ticket. I think it might be squashing the body of it a bit too much.
May 12, 2009 09:40 pm im outta here for a week, so will jump back in next wed or there abouts.
catch ya then.
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