Small venue needs help!
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Posted on May 03, 2009 03:20 pm
voiceandaprayer
Member Since: May 03, 2009
Thank goodness I found you guys! I want to set up a solid sound system for a venue that seats about 300. The room does have a high ceiling in places but its not a huge place by any means. It will be an open mic, karaoke, and small band venue. I presently have a budget of $5,000 so I obviously don't have money to waste. I'm probably going with a 16 channel mixer and powered speakers so I guess my questions are:
1. What mixer, speakers, and mics are a good balance of quality and budget? 2. What rack toys are really necessary and recommended?
Thanks in advance for any and all advice!
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Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
May 03, 2009 08:32 pm Yep, Rob will be the one to recommend better gear for the money. He is our resident FOH guy and knows his stuff.
Welcome to HRC by the way.
May 04, 2009 05:48 pm Well, you do have a really tight budget.
I'll have to look around on Ebay, and a few people that I know.
But, I don't know if I am going to be able to keep it under your $5K range.
May 04, 2009 07:54 pm This board is at a good price for what it is.
cgi.ebay.com/Mackie-24x8-...1QQcmdZViewItem
And these speakers come with stands and bags. Always a plus.
cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Mackie-S...1QQcmdZViewItem
Now, lets see. Your going to need an EQ. This will work.
cgi.ebay.com/DBX-1231-31-...1QQcmdZViewItem
I think just one FX unit for right now. This one has two engines to it. So it's the same as having two FX units.
cgi.ebay.com/TC-ELECTRONI...1QQcmdZViewItem
The rest I would sink into mic's and mic stands. Shure SM58's are the first that I would suggest. 4 -6 would be a good starting number. After that, SM 57's for any instruments that you might get on your stage.
Now, this system will not have any big pounding bass. You will need subs for that. And that is something that you can add later on.
This is just something to get you started. And I think will do you service for your space.
May 04, 2009 08:01 pm HEY! Look at that! we only are at half of your budget. You could double the speaker count, and add another EQ.
That way you could have two mixes of monitors with your system.
May 04, 2009 10:11 pm Help is a beautiful thing. Thanks so much guys. I'll probably get one more speaker to use as a monitor and one sub. Hopefully in a couple of months I'll be able to go on a spending spree. Here's another couple of question though. I front a blues band and have been looking into upgrading my vocal set up. I have a tc helicon voice create and voice correct and like them alot. Is the voicelive (or any other vocal effects unit) worth the price tag or am I just paying for a bunch of applications I won't use? And I've narrowed my mic search down to the Audio Technica AE5400 and the Neumann kms105. Any other suggestion? And are the wireless adaptors the way to go or should I just get a wireless unit? Thanks again!
May 04, 2009 11:17 pm The TC Helicon in live situations, I find them to be a little noise. There seems to be a strange ground issue with them. To where you get a 10K buzz. Putting it through a DI, did not help it either. I would say, just let your FOH guy take care of the effects.
As for a mic suggestion. You seem to gravitate to the more expensive mics. So, the price tag on this mic may not shock you as much as others.
pro-audio.musiciansfriend...hone?sku=271194
This is the best on stage mic that I have ever used. And in all situations. I have used it as a podium mic, area mic, lead vocal, and back up vocals. Overheads for all percussion. I love this mic!
monmixrIf 50hz 60 will kill ya.Member
Since: Jan 08, 2009
May 05, 2009 12:54 am I gotta go with Rob on this, if its for you personally, the KSM9 is the way to go. you need phantom cause its a condenser, but worth the investment.
Nate Mc.Formally Hydrial69Member
Since: May 06, 2009
May 06, 2009 03:49 pm yup, rob obviously knows his stuff, but what i would like to know, is it you who is operating the board, and what is your skill level? because if you have certain skills, you can save money by the oodles
Nate Mc.Formally Hydrial69Member
Since: May 06, 2009
May 06, 2009 04:13 pm i have to disagree with you on the dbx DriveRack PA 24-Bit EQ Loudspeaker Control System Zek, im an analog live sound kinda guy, and anything that needs you to buy a mic thats lots aswell to me is right away a scam. atleast when you have the skill to graph a room on your own.
rob is spot on with gear recommendations, cost effective and your gonna get the job done great. in terms of compressors, be careful, people tend to drop compressions on everything, when its not needed and makes it sound amateur. so my word on that is understand compressions and be weary of it, me myself, i barely use compression in a live situation.
now i didnt get to check out the board, but im guessing it powers speakers rob cuz you didnt mention power amps?
mics, 58's and 57's are going to last you a lifetime or longer if you get them, best mic investment you could make.
and try not to use to many condensers in live sound. i only if it is a must and no dynamic could create the poper pattern and use i would use it for. and then you avoid needing phantom, which isnt a big deal, but just adds to the mix of things to worry about
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
May 06, 2009 05:11 pm well it costs lots because it's a Eq, compressor, limiter, feedback suppressor, crossover... and I think thats about it... :)
The mic is only needed if you want it to pink the room automatically... which takes about a minute... unless you'd rather manually pink every single room you play in.
Nate Mc.Formally Hydrial69Member
Since: May 06, 2009
May 06, 2009 07:57 pm well, i'd much rather manually graph the room ^.^
things like smart live and programs can greaph a room technically yes, but you hit so many issues,
if someone coughs in the room, you've graphed for thier cough, try getting everyone at a gig to be quite for a minute, its impossible lol, especially around musicians.
and like i said, they can technically graph a room to what is correct, not what sounds better.
i can graph a room manually in less than 1 minute
May 06, 2009 09:35 pm I'll agree with you Nate for a small room and system.
But for a large room and system....
Give me my Dolby Lake and my Smaartlive!
There is no way your ear can pick up every node in a room that can hold 10,000 or more.
Nate Mc.Formally Hydrial69Member
Since: May 06, 2009
May 06, 2009 11:52 pm hmmmm, i can meet you half way there, but i also have perfect pitch and great ears, but still, its hard with a huge room, but lets face it, not to many people are going to be doing 10,000 persons arena shows lol.
in that situation i;d use smart live maaaaaaaaaaybe to tell me where to get a reference from, but cut out the digital EQ, i cant stand them, and they can cause an error, especially if something is needed to be changed quick, but, that once again is my bias against digital live sound gear.
May 07, 2009 11:52 am I'll just have to turn you on to the gear that monmixr and myself use.
The Yamaha PM5D rocks! I have never had an issue with that desk on a show. And once you put a clock on it, sounds as good, if not better then a Midas XL4.
The Dolby Lake sadly has been discontinued. You have to search high and low for one. There is no other crossover or EQ on the planet that can compare to the Dolby Lake. And I have to say, that I don't know what digital EQ that you have used in the past, but I have not heard of the issue of moving it to fast that caused an error?
Here where I work, we have the Ashly Protea',the Karlk Teknik DN3600, and the Dolby Lake. I have never had an issue with either one of them. I really don't use the DBX drive rack equipment, so I don't know if they have that issue or not.
We also use the EiterSound networks as well. And they are rock solid. Our M7CL's, PM5D's, and all of our Nexo NX242's have EitherSound. Quite and clean as a whistle. Trust me, you would love it.
Then we have the Aviom return system. 16 Ch digital returns back to your stage.
And that is one of the biggest reasons for Smaartlive. Delays. When your stack is flown at 25' to the bottom box, and you have over 24 subs on the ground. You really need something for the timing. Not to mention lip fills, and out fills. Without Smaartlive, the timing would be a nightmare.
monmixrIf 50hz 60 will kill ya.Member
Since: Jan 08, 2009
May 08, 2009 03:46 am hmmmmm just about all my friends do 10000 seaters quite a bit. alot of big sheds, arenas, stadiums, and large theatres. smart is the way to go, especially if you have multiple delays, I use 3 dbx 480s with the 480R for monitors and have never had a problem ever,(knocking on wood). have also used digico d1, d5 and d7, pm1d pm5d and m7cl without problems. Im an analog guy too, but easier is easier.
