Mic Pre-Amp
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Posted on Apr 17, 2009 09:12 pm
SirEnvy
BEAST MODE [ON] OFF
Member Since: Dec 31, 2008
Hey guys, I have a question. I am looking to record some vocals using a software on my computer. I do have a BOSS BR900CD, which records, but I dont want to deal with the hassle of recording then sending to CPU. Anyway, I have a Shure 58 Mic, and I know I need a preamp for power, can a tube pre amp be just fine, for around 100 dollars?
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Apr 18, 2009 12:51 am There isn't a "toob" preamp worth a bowl of warm snot for $100 (I can't really think of one under around $1k for that matter).
For a few bucks more your can probably snatch up a DMP3 (M-Audio). Decent, really cheap, dual channel. Best bang-for-the-buck (by a long shot) in that price range.
timexoneproducerMember
Since: Dec 07, 2006
Apr 18, 2009 02:15 am Hey Master...I have a DMP3 and i use it all the time with great results...but i dont know what it is that makes it better than other preamps in it's price class. can you elaborate for me why this is a good preamp? just tryin to learn a little from a big mind.
SirEnvyBEAST MODE [ON] OFFMember
Since: Dec 31, 2008
Apr 18, 2009 09:03 am ohh okay, I was just looking on ebay, and saw a toob preamp...so you suggest the DMP3, so this will work perfectly when I want to plug the mic in my computer?
JeffHouseRecording Prodigy Member
Since: Apr 18, 2009
Apr 18, 2009 09:14 am A good tube mic pre is not impossible to find for under $1k. You just have to know where to look.
The Presonus one channel tube mic pre works just great (mind its potential is greater with a higher US grade 12AX7 tube than what comes stock).
I have heard some great recordings from the presonus tube mic preamps. They are perfect for just starting out in home studios or what have you.
ALSO for under $1k the ART MPA GOLD is an AMAZING two channel mic preamp (with tube replacement) for around $300. Coupled with a two channel compressor, you would be hard pressed to find a better mic pre for that price.
Granted there is a gap between the $300 preamps and the $1,000 to $4,000 mic preamps.
But my philosophy is to invest in good microphones first. (like the AKG C414 XLII B), THEN work on getting preamps you can afford, starting with the source (the mic) will greatly enhance your production quality.
GeoffSM7b the Chuck Noris of Mic'sContributor
Since: Jun 20, 2002
Apr 18, 2009 09:23 am I would say a good solid state pre is the way to go if you are getting started. fussing around with cheap tubes and the like is a pain in the ***. Plus if your going for a "go to" pre a SS can work better for laying down more tracks. I have a few of both and the tube pre's that i dig i only use on one or two things, granted they work great on thoughs things but they have there own flovor. the DMP3 seems to be a good start. I've not had any problems with any of my M-audio equipment. I have had a few of the "cheap" tube pre's and now they work well as paper weights.
Apr 18, 2009 10:42 am Most of those cheap "toob" preamps are just junk with starved plate tubes which you could probably replace with paper clips across the contacts with no audible difference. Change the tubes as much as you want - There's no real voltage there.
A) Sure, there are a few exceptions - GT's "Brick" is a decent pre with a "real" tube with actual voltage.
B) Anyone who talks about "tube sound" reads too many catalogs and marketing materials. Even in the majority of "real" tube gear, the tubes have nothing to do with the sound or the signal path. Transformers are everything - and literally every single preamp out there known for its "warmth" (etc., etc.) are solid state.
Back to the DMP3 -- It's a very minimalist design, decent quality components, small box. Sure - it has no real usable headroom and falls apart completely when you push it. But there's no reason to push it - and the fact that it's one of very few cheapie amps with actual VU meters (the only meter that matters with a properly calibrated chain), it sort of makes it a slam dunk. It was one of the original "super-cheap" preamps and it was actually a good one. Everyone else cranks out these goofy 'tube' things that sound terrible and they market them as being something special because they have a tube in them.
I'm a picky MF'er... If I thought tubes actually sounded "better" I'd use tubes. They don't. Even in "real" tube gear. Pieces that do (take Manley stuff for example) have a unique sonic characteristic due to tubes are few and far between.
Taking mild issue with a previous post: I'm not sure which PreSonus preamp is being discussed, but I've not found one (a Presonus preamp) that was worth the powder it would take to blow it up. The TubePre (gag), there was a "Studio Channel" or something like that that had an awful, AWFUL sounding EQ and a built-in compression circuit that was pretty worthless. Bypass it all and it sounded almost as good as the DMP3, but with less focus (and focus is everything in a preamp).
Let's keep in mind that I'm not "anit-PreSonus" either -- I've been pushing the Central Station for years. Possibly the highest bang-for-the-buck factor of any piece of gear on the planet at the moment (even as inconsistent as it can be due to the use of certain cheap components that have hopefully been upgraded over the last few years, it's still, by far - by FAR - the greatest monitoring controller out there anywhere near its price point, along with an actually usable and relatively neutral DA).
The other half: Great mics are important, sure. But ANY mic is only ever as good as the preamp driving it. Put a U47FET through a Behringer preamp and you've got crap. Put a SM58 through a P-Solo or and you've got something. IMO/E, YMMV, etc., etc.
That goes along with the whole conundrum of recording: Most musicians think source-forward (source, instrument, mic, preamp, media, control, amplification, monitoring, room). Recording engineers think room-backward (room, monitoring, amplification, control, media, preamp, mic, source).
The two are at complete odds with each other.
To write great music, you almost have to go one way (nothing is more important than the song and the source). To make great recordings, you have to go the other (nothing is more important that the monitoring and the room).
SirEnvyBEAST MODE [ON] OFFMember
Since: Dec 31, 2008
Apr 18, 2009 03:23 pm thanks for the help! So looks like I am going for the DMP3, I checked it out, and its just what I needed...150 dollars is in my price range for right now. Thanks for the input.
jetgloMember
Since: Jul 23, 2004
Apr 18, 2009 10:51 pm Good deal on the DMP3! Too many people are pushed away from getting what they NEED TO GET because someone is always there to say.. oh you'll never get a good sound unless you get this or that more expensive thing.
I have purchased gear that seemed like a good idea at the time, or was the only thing I could afford, and it no longer does it for me.. why? because I have learned a thing or two with that gear and now I understand my upgrades better. And I have gotten better at filtering the marketing hype and negativity because of it. Education costs something.
As for starved plate pre-amps, they have their place.. like any tool. The job of the preamp is to make the sound louder, and they can do that quite well. If all you can get is that kind of tube pre.. then if it distorts too much or is too brashy, switch out the tube(s). I did that very thing (an ecc83 in place of the original 12ax7 for a darker colour) and my first mic-pre's are great in certain applications.
So I used to use them for mics.. now I use them for bass guitar, keys etc.. sometimes backup vocals for a different colour and more depth.. see? education and no waste.
I say go with what you can get.. and go for it, make it work.. upgrade later if you can.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Apr 18, 2009 11:27 pm i bought a "joe meek" pre earlier this year. it rocks.
jetgloMember
Since: Jul 23, 2004
Apr 19, 2009 07:42 am MassiveMaster says:"That goes along with the whole conundrum of recording: Most musicians think source-forward (source, instrument, mic, preamp, media, control, amplification, monitoring, room). Recording engineers think room-backward (room, monitoring, amplification, control, media, preamp, mic, source)."
Great point.
I've never owned a JoeMeek.. but I've got a friend that loves his 6Q.. which one, Deon?
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Apr 19, 2009 08:29 am mines a "twin Q"
the 6Q. is that a 6 input? if so man that woulda cost a bit.
im still getting used to mine, wanna learn more to get the most out of it.
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Apr 21, 2009 01:00 pm The 6Q, It is actually a single input channel strip with eq and comp.
On a side note... HAHAHA I talked the band into buying a nice pre for tracking everything that can be tracked on a single channel ($5-600 range).
Now I won't technically own it. But it will sit in my house, be used by me, and sing me to sleep at night.
Hooray for me not spending my money to make the band sound better :)
