OPPOSITE OF LATENCY PROBLEM

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Member Since: Aug 17, 2008

When recording midi, I seem to be having a problem that seems like the opposite of latency. My understanding of latency is it records late. But when I hit a key, then play it back, it's showing as actually recording ticks before (earlier than) the place that I intended to record it. So my timing is off. This problem is new. I tried looking to see if Snap-To-Grid was on in any of the views. It was only on in Tempo view, and won't turn off there. Even when I am able to turn it off temporarily in Tempo View, what's recorded still comes in at an earlier place than I hit the note.

My set up is Dell Dimension 3000, Windows XP, Cakewalk Pro Audio 9, Creative Sound Blaster PC1521 sound card, Roland XP 30, Behringer Eurorack MX 1804X. Buffers In Playback Queue is set at 4. Buffer Size 100msec and Use Wave Out Position For Timing is unchecked. I appreciate your help.

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I tune down down...
Member
Since: Jun 11, 2007


Aug 30, 2008 06:41 pm

Check your quantizing settings.

Either that, or your related to John Titor. :P


But, no. That should fix it.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Aug 30, 2008 06:45 pm

bahahahahahaha

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Aug 30, 2008 06:55 pm

It sound like you have the timing offset for midi set to compensate by placing the notes earlier in the track.

Find that and either set it to 0 or turn it off and you should be good.

I don't have 9 installed any longer so I can't look to see, but looking back to Sonar 1 and it shows it in the midi options section.

Member
Since: Aug 17, 2008


Sep 02, 2008 11:02 pm

Thanks for replying. In Cakewalk Pro Audio 9, I don't know where to go to change Quantize settings. I'm only aware of going to Edit/Midi FX/Cakewalk FX once a particlar clip of music has already been selected to Quantize. But I don't know how to change global setting of the entire program to correct this. I hope you will advise further. Thank you.

I tune down down...
Member
Since: Jun 11, 2007


Sep 02, 2008 11:31 pm

Turn it off and see if that helps.

Member
Since: Aug 17, 2008


Sep 03, 2008 12:05 am

From what I see its not something you can turn on. Its something that you already have to have highlighted a particular clip of music, then apply it to that clip of music only. I actually looking for something that I can turn off. Can't find anything like that yet.

Member
Since: Aug 17, 2008


Sep 03, 2008 12:26 am

Thanks for responding. Should you remember or come across anyone who knows, I would greatly appreciate the info.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Sep 03, 2008 07:00 pm

It is either in the project or global options section.

we prefer "percussionist"
Member
Since: Jul 21, 2004


Sep 03, 2008 11:08 pm

I've had problems with this for years, finally tracked it down to "that's how I play". For some reason, when playing MIDI drums, I anticipate every note. I just know that whenever I record this way, I'm going to have to adjust the whole track by however much I'm anticipating. Adds a step, gets annoying, but it works every time.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Sep 04, 2008 05:58 pm

I think in his case it is the midi offset being set to a negative number.

In the help tab type the word midi offset and see if it brings you to that bit of info as to were to find it.

Member
Since: Aug 17, 2008


Sep 05, 2008 12:33 am

What you're saying sounds like it could very well be the problem. Only thing is, when I search "midi offset" in Cakewalk Pro Audio 9, there is nothing by that name.

The actual midi timing of the entire piece played is kept well. The problem is where it starts. It's like when I play a note, it automatical records it a few beats ealier than when I played it, so it's throwing everything off terribly. It's very taxing trying to slide every to where it should be.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Sep 05, 2008 08:23 pm

I'll dig out my Pro Audio 9 manual and see if i can find what it was called back then.

And you do know that you can actually highlight the entire clip or multiple clips and simply move them whatever amount in MS or ticks it seems to be off.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Sep 05, 2008 08:31 pm

It is right in the track pane itself on a per track basis. It is the cell labeled Time +. See if it is at 0 and if not set it there.

The description in in the manual at chapter 3 page 28.

I tune down down...
Member
Since: Jun 11, 2007


Sep 07, 2008 03:18 am

Noize... I say it again... You're a good man. :)

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Sep 07, 2008 12:31 pm

Thanx Cynic.

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Sep 08, 2008 12:11 am

if that doesn't work, i'm thinking it's might be more of an "output latency" issue....say the computer is slower (buffer?) outputting playback (epically if you have multiple tracks playing) audio than it is recording it in "real time"...kinda like the delay in satellite broadcasting....try reducing your buffers to get more of a 'real time' feel. should be in audio options as mentioned.

may the schwartz be with you!

Member
Since: Aug 17, 2008


Sep 13, 2008 11:54 pm

Thanks so much for responding. I really appreciate everyone's help. Haven't had a chance to work on this in a couple of weeks, but should be back at it in a few days.

A while back I considered toying with the "time +" as an option or perhaps as a last resort to resolve the problem.

However, since this seems to be happening regularly on any new song I create (even when there's no audio track), I was hoping there would be a fix in "Global Options" that would resolve the problem hence forth and forever more, as opposed to one instrument at a time, per song.

This problem is happening even when I only have down a few measures of only two different midi instruments. The second instrument will always record off-beat a couple of beats early than where it was intended to land and it's not a matter of how I'm playing. This is a brand new problem for me. I'm at a recording lost because in music timing is everything.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Sep 14, 2008 03:16 pm

OK, I have been through everything in the PA 9 manual that could possibly pertain to this. And there is nothing that would be a default setting that can cause this to happen.

Have you checked each track before recording the midi to make certain it isn't somehow getting set up this way to set the midi data back a few ticks or something. It could be a template you are using that is causing this on start up.

My other thought is the SB midi interface portion is causing something to go wrong.

I'll ask this then. When you record the very first midi track is it spot on where it should be as far as the measure/beat/tick placement of each note? If not then this is entirely possible that the interface is causing the issue, or as stated somehow the template you set up to start recording with is setting the midi data back.

Member
Since: Aug 17, 2008


Sep 20, 2008 11:49 am

Far as I know nothing is set up for this "error" to be occurring. I'm not sure what you mean about a template I may be using. I'm not using anything extra and no effects either. Just plain old CWPA9 with no fillers, by-products or special effects or add ons.

It does start that way from the first note I record in a new song. Even if its a brand new song, from the very first one note that I tap, that note will fall ahead where it was intended to fall a few ticks. I usually lay down a drum track first either from a midi drum machine I'll hook up only to lay down drums (then I unhook drum machine)or from pre-recorded drum beats that are already recorded in my Roland keyboard. I then lay down my bass line bass line and the following instruments from the Roland.

This should not be the problem since that is how I've always recorded in the past with the exact same soundcard and equipment and no problem. I have added no new equipment, which is what lead me to believe it was a setting somewhere that I didn't know about.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Sep 20, 2008 03:10 pm

Man, I am a total loss on what could possibly be doing this.

Do you have the latest driver update installed for the SB? I'm grasping at straws here now but its a thought. Maybe something went buggers with the SB card from an XP update or something.

I'll keep digging around but its looking like this is something that isn't going to be easily solved. I thin we have covered pretty much every thing it could be at least that is software related with Cakewalk anyway.

Member
Since: Aug 17, 2008


Sep 20, 2008 11:18 pm

yes, I already have the lastest driver for soundcard.

Veni, MIDI, Vici
Member
Since: Jul 02, 2008


Sep 21, 2008 12:13 am

Do you have other MIDI software available except Cakewalk? It would be interesting to see if it happens in a different program too. Just trying to help finding a possible cause.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Sep 21, 2008 11:51 am

Good idea for sure. There are a few freeware midi recording programs over at KVR www.kvraudio.com that would let you see if that happens with them as well.

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