A growing global society
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Posted on Mar 06, 2003 12:09 pm
Mat
Music Enthusiast
Member Since: Jan 24, 2003
Just finished reading the big post about war and religion and everything. I guess I'm a bit late for that. Just been really busy the last while...
Anyway, it just made me think about evolution and society and this message forum as well. It just seems to me that more people are gaining awareness and knowledge generally. (duh) But this seems to be more spread out globally. I guess every country undergoes social evolution at a different rate, but when you think about it, the state of the world should improve if everyone becomes more aware. Inernet kinda helps that in a way...
I can't wait the day that I can travel without a passport and expect general friendliness from everyone. I think this is obtainable. We often think it is some kind of ideal world, but maybe we are just limited by our current situation and mind set. People thought the Earth was flat a long time ago. If geographical perspective can change, perhaps sociological perspectives can change as well? I am Canadian and I'm happy to be where I am, but I think I'd like to be able to say I am proud to be human rather than associate myself to some organization or country. Just my 2 cents...
About oil, we are designing fuel cells and it looks like it's working pretty well so oil will be outdated pretty soon ;-)
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Mar 06, 2003 12:29 pm I agree, the global knowledge base is better, as long as communication and travel gets better, speeds up and is priced for the common man, it will continue to improve. Traveling without a passport and getting general friendliness is not likely, tho it may be cynical of me (I've been called worse) I believe there will always be those people that think they are better than everybody else becasue they are smarter, their skin is a different color or they believe the right religion and everyone else doesn't. Because of that overall ignorance, which I don't think the human race will ever completely outgrow, we will for ever be separated by our differences.
Myself, I really don't care who you worship (if anyone) what color your skin is, what sex your prefer or how smart you are, as long as you are a productive member of society at large, Ihave no problem with you. Until everybody thinks that way, there will never be a utopian society. That is not saying I am the perfect example of what a person should be, far from it, BUT I do feel that everybody has to set aside differences, and often learn to embrace them and celebrate them, for a truly free global society to exist.
In my humble opinion.
Mar 06, 2003 12:54 pm It's true that if you study history, you can just see how far we've come as a whole. If you look at the middle ages and all the stuff that went on back then, and you look at the age of exploration with the killing of innocent Native Americans and the enslavement of Africans and all the battles in the past over useless pieces of territory. For the most part, that kind of thing doesn't go on anymore. We know that it is wrong and we have learned from our mistakes.
I kind of disagree with dB in a way. I don't think we should embrace and celebrate everyone's differences. I think we should learn to accept them, but I don't think we should emphasize them. I think we should take them for what they are: minor differences! We should ignore them, not in the sense of just not saying anything about them, but in the sense that we don't care about them. But I'm talking about things like skin color, communication and intelligence.
Think about this: There are some differences in opinion that can harm other people. We obviously shouldn't accept these things. It all comes back to the fact that you need a set of rules and right and wrong that everyone will follow. We can't all just accept everyone's opinions. If I think that it's okay to kill someone, does that mean that you should celebrate and embrace my opinion? Opinions often coincide with a person's religion which is part of who/what they worship. So it really does matter who they worship, doesn't it? This is not the only example of this. I hope you can kind of see where I'm going with this.
Mar 06, 2003 01:29 pm I totally see where you are going, and it makes sense.
I have a few freinds scattered throughout the world, and we frequently discuss our differences and learn from them, learn about each other. We mention when we are celebrating a specific holiday and what it's about, and usually the others say "oh, ya we have a similar one but we celebrate it in the fall instead of spring" and things like that. I have actually found it quite reqarding and very inlightening insofar as I am amazed how little really separates us. We totally embrace, celebrate and learn from our differences, and really find out they are not that different at all.
Religious differences will always be the deviding line, because it is simple to personal. None of it can be proven or disproven because it's all based on a belief structures that are non-scientific and intangible. And that is where it starts getting touchy.
Mar 06, 2003 01:38 pm This is true, but I don't think it's just limited to religion. I guess any belief in general can cause things to get tense. Again, you have to remember that for a religion to be worth anything the people who are part of it have to believe in it, so automatically that will go against someone else's belief. We have to handle these differences of opinion without attacking each other, but you have to realize that some people want to see others coming to their faith because they truly believe it is real and they want others to be able to be a part of it for their own good. We just have to remember that you can't force anybody to believe in something.
Hmmm... well, here we are, talking about religion again :-)
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Mar 06, 2003 03:02 pm Well I agree except for the woman thing. I read that part of the bible. After the 7 day and night gig all was well. Then came Adam. God kinda scratched his head. Then Adam gets lonely and bored. God thinks, what a whiner! Rips out Adam's rib and gives him a good reason to whine! Ok fine no more bordom for you. Thou shalt have the honey do list, unending naging, constant emotional trama to deal with. And thou shalt be responsible for everything! Regardless of Thous involvement or even knowledge! And so was created the first plague of man .... kind.
MatMusic EnthusiastMember
Since: Jan 24, 2003
Mar 06, 2003 04:40 pm I am one to think that the gap between science and religion is not that big. What I mean by that is that religion and science are both 'tools' we use to understand our environment. I happen to prefer science as a 'tool' to understand the Universe but obviously it is not perfect. IMHO it is a bit better as far as understanding goes; I think this because science is dynamic. The beliefs it harbours change with time. Religion? Pretty static if you ask me. I even remember someone saying in another thread that the bible hadn't changed all that much since its creation. However, science doesn't provide fait, which I think is something valuable.
I come from a catholic background but I faded religion out of my life. That doesn't make me an atheist. I can still be spiritual. Religion thought me faith, but once you grow, I think inevitebly, you realize any religion is limited. Fine by me if anyone wants to stick to a particular one and exploit what's good about it.
But I beleive the problem with that is spiritual and personal growth inhibition.
It boils down to developing conscience and tolerance and a mature communication system. Tolerance takes care of differences and conscience augments care and tolerance. I don't think enough people are consciencious of others and tolerant enough. We are too self-centered.
Ah...I guess I'm rambling a bit. I'll stop now. I don't pretend to know the answers but I like to think we can all improve :-)
Mar 07, 2003 05:37 am Ya, you are rambling :-) But at least it is an educated, intelligent ramble...which I happen to disagree with at points, but hey, I am tolerant :-)
I don't find religion really limiting unless one makes it that way. Many of the more vocal, radical or more in-your-face religions seem limited because many of them read one verse in the Bible and take that to be the be-all-end-all truth without reading context around it, and that makes it damaging, or often times a very incorrect interpretation of it. I faded reilgion out of my life for many years for the same reason, but as I re-read it with a more mature, older mind I am coming to realize that I don't really find it limiting, but inspiring.
But maybe that is just me.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Mar 07, 2003 11:44 am I find little contradiction between science and religious text. We have traced all DNA back to Africa, creating speculation as to the existance of an actual Eve. We are looking at time as a flux which is not singular in dimension and may not have direction in the sense that we have preceived it. I find science dovetails well and gives me insite into the anchient texts. Obvously these are only two more recent examples. As far as spiruality vs religion. I agree that spiruality is a global term for my understanding of my maker. When I practice religion then I have to work with other's spiritual existance. It is my perception that it is better to participate in a religion per the communal aspects of a religion than not to participate because of differences in perception. One thing that is obvious. God made people as individuals, each with potential contribution. For that structure to exist, we all must be able to think independantly. And so why in the case of man made religion would we expect that all would think the same? It makes perfect sense to me that we all practice our spiruality differently. The object is to grow spiritually. Not stick it in a can and say I have some of that. Don't practice your music for a while and see what happens to it's quality.
I did it again! Here in the middle of a deep phylisophical discussion. For me the questions far out weigh the answers, and so debate is of little value. I'll "listen" for a while again. Much more rewarding!
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Mar 07, 2003 06:46 pm 2 thoughts:
1)I do not wish to have a global society. In fact I'd be quite excited if I could get my city to become it's own city state unto itself. Basically, I think it is people's differences that make this world dynamic, and a global society would only serve to remove those differences (that's why I hate GAP!). Along the same lines, even though I disagree with the Iraq war effort, I completely disagree that the US should go to the UN to get support for said war. Screw it, if we have reason to go to war, we should take the responsibility on to ourselves and do what we need to do. I guess my point is I disagree with the UN as a world organization. I'll take the local over the global every single time.
2)I think all people should be regarded as equal (in spirit). They may not have the same capacities to achieve the same thing, but they all deserve the same amount of basic respect. Ok, that's a really basic statement and doesn't take into account all of the things that people do to lose respect, but I think it's a good baseline place to start.
Overall, I think we should respect differences in each other, accept them, and even celebrate them, but we shouldn't try to eliminate them. At the same time, we need to realize that even though others are different, their beliefs have the same validity as ours. To each their own!
Mar 07, 2003 06:52 pm great stuff guys. i agree with most everything you're all saying.
i too agree that science and religion are very similar. i was atheist for nearly 10 years, and only now look back and realize the fault of that standpoint. it's not that i was ignorant of my spirituality then, so much as we are all ignorant of it at some point in our spiritual progression. some of you will certainly disagree, but i've come to understand that both science and religion are both based on faith. a physisist will tell you that nothing is predictable. it wasn't until i began to see it from so many angles that i could preceive this simplicty. all of our perceptions are wrong, and it's out faith in them that makes them stick. the example of a flat earth is a perfect example. that was accepted sciene 600 years ago. we all think something different, therefor we're all wrong. we generalize to comprehend, and in that loose the truth. we're all wrong.. and that's one of the only real truths out there.
i think understanding that all of our beleifs are faulty as such leads to that tolerance and concience we all need. I'm content with that.
has anyone considered the day when the world's races will have interbred into one homogeneous race? I'm sure we'll find something else to ***** about..
Mar 07, 2003 07:06 pm Quote:
has anyone considered the day when the world's races will have interbred into one homogeneous race? I'm sure we'll something else to ***** about..
of course there is also the commonly believed theory that as the races breed our immune system and basic basic bodily functions become stronger and more tolerant, which would lead me to believe we should promote inter-racial breeding...inside the institution of marriage of course...
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Mar 07, 2003 07:20 pm Hey that's me!
Anyways, if we all came from Africa in the first place, we were already 1 homogenous race. ashes to ashes and all that...
Mar 07, 2003 07:31 pm If the Biblical account is correct, we were all one race until the Tower of Babble...or at least we all spoke the same language, I think the same race part was added into the story by some drama major :-)
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Mar 11, 2003 10:19 am I submit that we ARE and always have been homogenous. Skin pigment is directly related to UV radiation over time. Imune system development is easly explained per exposure to different microbiological and viral concentration. As far as our social interdependance, that is a given in nature! That is the fabric! Cane and Able. One grew grain the other raised sheep, and so they ate. Good activity to maintain life! One no longer present and the other roamed a wastland aimlessley. Not a bad descrpition of our interdependance given the time and development of understanding. I guess a detalied DNA map would have been nice 2000 years later, but at the time would have served as good fire starter. Maybe it did! And then out of nowhere Cane starts a city. Full of poeple? A city? Where each contributes and all benifit? Hmmmm? Maybe his question of "am I my borhter's keeper" was answered? Per his actions, he saw some value in others. Now, we can say that this is contridiction in a literal sence, because all of these people just popped into the theater, or we can look at the deeper value of the message. How do you explain things to children? Those not developed enough to comprehend the detail, but in need of the concept? Wouldn't it be nice if everyone was developed to the point of not needing to be right or more correct not affraid of being wrong. What if the Germans had won the second world war. Answer; They didn't! Just is. There is a lot of just is. Accepting has nothing to do with liking, prefering, wanting, or agreeing. It is difficult to determine when something is truely threatening. We do our best. Just is.
