Six imams kicked off flight win a round in court

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Administrator Since: Apr 03, 2002

This really ticks me off.

www.startribune.com/462/story/1564287.html

That said, if/when it goes to a jury trial, I doubt they'll ever win anything.

This is a big story in Minnesota.

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Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


Nov 21, 2007 09:55 am

To me, it seems that if these fellas were actually up to no good, they wouldn't have engaged in such obviously suspicious behavior.

That said, I think they also should have been a little hipper as to what makes Americans nervous nowadays.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Nov 21, 2007 10:00 am

I tend to agree with your first statement, but, at the same time, if you were a pilot of that plane, or a passenger about to get on that plane or already on it, with your wife and kids, what would you have done? Would you stake your LIFE on that assumption? I wouldn't.

They were angry, spewing hatred about America in support of Saddam, saying prayers and chants, half of them had one way tickets with no baggage, asked for belt extensions and were not overweight...I dunno man, looks freaky to me, not sure I would have bet my life and said nothing.

You can bet your *** if Americans had just attacked some country (let's say Iraq) and was was flying in Iraq for whatever reason, I would be on my BEST DAMN BEHAVIOR.

www.TheLondonProject.ca
Member
Since: Feb 07, 2005


Nov 21, 2007 10:09 am

I remember hearing about this before (I guess it was just after it happened).

I'm not sure what to make of it. People freak out at things they don't understand. If it was me about to board that plane I would be pretty freaked out. Communication is key. I get the feeling that no one really knew what they were doing. Did the authorities have the right to remove them? YES. Do they have a right to pray in the airport? YES.

In Canada we have a very large range of ethnic groups/races etc. We are faced with this sort of thing all the time. Our most recent event involved a Polish dude that didn't speak any English. He started to freak out in the airport and ended up getting tasered.... and died. The bottom line there seems to be sort of the same thing. Communication.







Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


Nov 21, 2007 10:13 am

And these imams may have been pulling a stunt intentionally just to get arrested and rock the boat.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Nov 21, 2007 10:15 am

I guess my main concern isn't the praying...it's the hatred speak, the unusual request, the one way ticket, and yes, racial profiling.

You are right, they had every right to remove them, they acted appropriately in my opinion.

People are afraid of things they don't understand, but there are also people that blatantly push buttons...hell we see it on this forum all the time :-)

Quote:
And these imams may have been pulling a stunt intentionally just to get arrested and rock the boat.


exactly. They may well get rich off of our stupid, liberal gov't here in MN.

As far as communication goes, the last couple years, dealing with my relatively small scale issue I have come to learn one thing, some people just can not be communicated with, communication requires a both sides...

It should also be noted right before boarding they also started asking for seat reassignments, all on the aisle, two in front, two in the middle and two in back...remind you of the tactic as any other 19 middle eastern gentleman?

www.TheLondonProject.ca
Member
Since: Feb 07, 2005


Nov 21, 2007 10:23 am

Quote:
As far as communication goes, the last couple years, dealing with my relatively small scale issue I have come to learn one thing, some people just can not be communicated with, communication requires a both sides...
Exactly! In the video above, there wasn't anyone available that spoke Polish. All communication was done in English.

I don't think there is a solution to this kind of thing. One thing for sure though is that its better to be safe than sorry. Religion aside, anyone that speaks of hatred in an airport should be arrested or at least refused to board a plane. See how far you would get in THEIR airport yelling like that. Probably get you beheaded or something.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Nov 21, 2007 10:29 am

Quote:
Probably get you beheaded or something.


Yes, exactly...and I for one I am tired of the US letting anybody behave any way they damn well feel protecting peoples rights to spew hatred and crap...I do believe in freedom, but I also believe in mutual respect and common decency.

Until people on the whole start showing a little respect and decency, I don't know if anything can be done to save the downhill spiral society is in.

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003


Nov 21, 2007 11:05 am

I'm not the most informed person so forgive me when I ask: what the hell is an imam?

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


Nov 21, 2007 11:06 am

An Islamic leader.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Nov 21, 2007 11:07 am

Please Note Sarcasm:
some towel headed terrorist

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003


Nov 21, 2007 12:48 pm

Is it an acronym for something, or is it a title of some sort?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Nov 21, 2007 01:21 pm

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imam

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003


Nov 21, 2007 02:00 pm

heh, I went to that same page right after I asked the question. Jeez the use of imam in that language is as complicated as the many uses of the word "dude" in English :)

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Nov 21, 2007 02:15 pm

yeah, thats kinda what I thought too...

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Nov 21, 2007 08:30 pm

I'm all for the fact they got arrested and detained. After their outburst in public and what not they should not have even been allowed on the plane. It should have been dealt with right then and there.

AS for their idiot lawyer defending them, well money is money to them. The judge is an idiot as well in my book. This should not ever reach a court, they were wrong, end of story. I agree that they probably did it on purpose to provoke what happened.

Quote:
Do they have a right to pray in the airport?
NO

We can't pray in public because it might offend them. We can't pray in schools because it might offend them. What the **** is wrong with this counrty??? Are we all just going to sit back and let the freaking hate filled idiots like them just have their way and give in every time they jerk someones chain. If it were me I would have walked right up and told them to shut the hell up. And yes, I'm dead serious. I have put up with enough of that crap in our local neighborhood area that I am sick to death of it.

Our local grade school ended up prohibiting anyone parking in the area which is meant for parents to pick up their kids from school. Now they must park a block or so away and the kids have to walk.

Why did this happen. Because the foreign morons who refuse to be last in line drive on up and block the entire road. 10 or more at a time. They were asked to please wait their turn. They refused and kept blocking the road. Now no one is able to be there. It is all because of some ignorant foreign moron who refuse to go with the flow and thinks that this country owes them something.

Ya, a bit of a ramble, but I am absolutely pissed when it comes to this crap.

My youngest was suspended for two weeks last year. Why, because he defended himself from you guessed it. Some freaking foreign kid started a fight because my son would not let him just jump to the head of the line at lunch. The kid started to wail on Ray, so Ray of course weighing in at almost 200 pounds at 14 took care of business. When the kid didn't stop Ray leveled him and just jumped on him and popped him a couple more times for good measure to make him understand he better stop.

Even though there were 50 kids who stood behind Ray and stated it was not his fault, he is the one who got suspended. Not the idiot kid. When the parent of the kid called me to demand an apology, I politely stated he could come here and I would give him an apology with my fist. And bring his kid too so Ray could give him the same apology.

Sound bad, well it is. They get away with murder here and its getting out of control and no one seems to give s **** about it. And they simply state we need to make them feel at home.

Not me, they can go home as far as I'm concerned. If they can't live here as an American, go the **** home!

www.TheLondonProject.ca
Member
Since: Feb 07, 2005


Nov 21, 2007 11:19 pm

Wow, noise, something is messed up there. I totally see where you are coming from... strange thing about it is that in Canada we have huge diversification and for the most part everyone gets along. This truly is a big difference between the US and Canada. You know it always comes down to the same thing, why can't we all just get along?

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


Nov 21, 2007 11:59 pm

BeerHunter, I'm a native American and I'm as annoyed with the intolerance as you are.

Firstly, Americans are stereotyped as racist, xenophobic, homophobic, and intolerant of those who don't adhere to certain beliefs.

Stereotypes are based on certain truths, and Americans are all of the things stated above.

The Irish have always kept their sense of humor when they are typed as lazy, stupid alcoholics. My hope is that the rest of the "types" - including the rest of the whites - can do the same when they are stereotyped..




Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


Nov 22, 2007 04:17 am

the solution is to add an all-polish airport in canada.

(jk)

Eat Spam before it eats YOU!!!
Member
Since: May 11, 2002


Nov 22, 2007 08:29 am

actually I've found parts of Canada to be extremely xenophobic... particularly French sections of Quebec...

www.TheLondonProject.ca
Member
Since: Feb 07, 2005


Nov 22, 2007 09:21 am

Quote:
actually I've found parts of Canada to be extremely xenophobic... particularly French sections of Quebec...


The French area's of Quebec are an entirely different breed than the rest of Canada. They don't even like other Canadians or even want to be part of Canada.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Nov 22, 2007 09:25 am

BH, Noize is right, in America as long as you are not a caucasion, christian male you have rights over and above. Of course all those rights and laws were created to "level the field"...every religion in school can have their own little groups that meet and pray before school, after school, etc, as long as it's not Christian, if it's Christian then the school can't have it.

So leveling the field throws it all off.

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


Nov 22, 2007 11:31 am

C'mon. School prayer is only disallowed as an organized part of a public school's schedule. Your kids can pray any time they want to. It's guaranteed under the first amendment and you know it.

Hey, it's my job to start arguments on Thanksgiving. Why should my sons have all the fun?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Nov 22, 2007 11:55 am

Yeah, that's why my neighbors kid was disallowed to use a classroom for before school prayer group...

www.TheLondonProject.ca
Member
Since: Feb 07, 2005


Nov 22, 2007 12:06 pm

Bruce Allen (promoter) has gotten himself into some hot water lately for making a public statement regarding this sort of thing.

Quote:
Bruce Allen: "If you choose to come to a place like Canada, then shut up and fit in,"


Anyways he is taking a lot of flak for what a lot of Canadians believe. He just had the balls to say it.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Nov 22, 2007 12:09 pm

Bruce Allen is my new hero.

www.TheLondonProject.ca
Member
Since: Feb 07, 2005


Nov 22, 2007 12:42 pm

He has a lot of support but as you can imagine in is creating a bit of a **** storm. Here's a link to the article
forum.canucks.com/index.php?showtopic=175596

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Nov 22, 2007 02:12 pm

Ay, it is pretty silly really. dB can tell you that both my youngest are not racist or anything of the sort. Ray has friends in just about any ethnic background and Tuna of course is as diverse as they come. He has more black friends then white. And his best buddy since the sandbox is a black Puertorican. So neither are racially motivated to lay the smack down on any one for that type of thing.

But as dB stated, it is very true about the praying thing. The kids from any religion can pray openly in the school any time. But not the Christian based religion kids. That is not allowed at all.

Oh ya, and I'm definitely not racist either. Just in case that may have come off that way.

But ya, its a sad state of affiars isn't it?

and Bruce Allen is great. There should be more with a voice like his and the ability to simply speak the truth and not be afraid of the reaction.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Nov 22, 2007 03:16 pm

Herb, they actually complained that they were offended by our kids praying because it might give their children the wrong impression or make them question their belief in what god is. So in the school's here Christians are not allowed to have an organized prayer group inside the school at all.

Ridiculous as it may sound it is true. so indeed it is not a level field at all. All of our rights are taken away one by one to make these morons feel at home and have it their way.

Like I said and is posted above by Bruce Allen. If you don't like it then go the **** home to your own country!

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


Nov 22, 2007 04:35 pm

Well your schools are breaking the law then.

It only needs to be pointed out to them. One phone call from a lawyer will clear that situation right up. Trust me on this one. I'm right.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Nov 22, 2007 04:56 pm

Most of the parents are afraid to make waves. I and others have phoned and threatened with the law several times, to no avail. They have some odd rules that were actually voted in by the stinking morons on the school board.

And yes, they are breaking the law in every way. But like I stated above, it is completely out of control here.

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


Nov 22, 2007 05:45 pm

It's completely within your control.

Do I have to come over there?

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Nov 22, 2007 06:34 pm

It should be completely under our control, but that is the problem right now here. The school keeps changing the rules, with the blessing of the school board and local idiots they call a city council.

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


Nov 22, 2007 07:21 pm

<<< takes a deep breath

What rules? Local officials cannot trump the First Amendment

I could post numerous links to these basic laws, but you know what they are, and so does your school board and city council.

Ask your school for an electronic copy of their policies regarding this matter and email it to me. I'd be very interested in reading it.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Nov 22, 2007 07:29 pm

oh, believe me, I have had more than one run-in with the local school officials over matters brought about by the redneck neighbor situation...hell, psycho even subpoenaed one principal to court on Monday...not that it did her any good...the school lawyer came with too...

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Nov 22, 2007 07:40 pm

What they end up doing is not allowing a classroom to be open for them to use or any room. There are a good deal of people messing with the system around here. Not trying to stymie the first ammendment, which they are doing without realizing it. But they are messing about with things such as allowing certain things to happen and others to not happen.

Its not like the others are praying out in the open, because they are not. But they are stifling many efforts to allow such things to happen. And some of the other ethnic groups just break the rules without being punished or thwarted like the others are.

Its a very strange ball game they are playing and it will come to a head sooner rather then later.

Right now they are trying to have certain members of the school board removed. So it isn't like it is being left to lie. They just keep finding a way to delay the changes that most people want.

Its mostly a matter of getting enough parents involved to wreak some havoc on the existing school board.

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


Nov 22, 2007 07:59 pm

Prayer in church and at home is equally effective.

Well, the last time I checked.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Nov 22, 2007 08:24 pm

Yep, it always has been. At least the last time I checked. Pretty soon they'll try and stop that.

Not in my neighborhood!

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


Nov 22, 2007 08:48 pm

Quote:
Pretty soon they'll try and stop that.


Who are they? Do you need 'round-the-clock surveillance?

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Nov 22, 2007 09:17 pm

I got a neighbor in my backyard that has to have satalite TV so the can watch their programs from their homeland. All the propaganda and crap.

Ne'er ate 'er
Member
Since: Apr 05, 2006


Nov 22, 2007 09:46 pm

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/6168/ksmjk0.jpg


Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Nov 23, 2007 02:30 pm

I think that is his brother.

Eat Spam before it eats YOU!!!
Member
Since: May 11, 2002


Nov 23, 2007 08:21 pm

I suppose I'll add that I would rather see them have their day in court and lose over not getting it and having people complain about it for forever...

Even SCO managed to not get their IP case dismissed... some judges have a morbid curiosity I suppose...

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