Apr 26, 2007 10:32 am Yeah, 1/4" to XLR cables are pretty common. www.zzounds.com/a--884907/item--MONMSLCMX is a good example.
Is there a line out you can use rather than the phones out?
Keyboard Question
Posted on Apr 26, 2007 10:16 am
mclir9
www.witchsmark.com
Member Since: Aug 13, 2006
We are playing a gig this weekend and using a Stage Snake for the first time. Usually our mixer was within 10 feet of the Keyboard player so we would plug her straight into the Mixer out the Phones Jack and into Mixer via a 1/4" cable. Now we plan on the Mixer being a good 25' in front of the stage. Can I purchase a (1/4" by XLR) cable and plug that from her Phones out and into the Snake, and then just plug XLR into Mixer??
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Apr 26, 2007 10:32 am Yeah, 1/4" to XLR cables are pretty common. www.zzounds.com/a--884907/item--MONMSLCMX is a good example.
Is there a line out you can use rather than the phones out?
Apr 26, 2007 10:36 am I don't think so, I believe it just has a Phones out. I have heard you have to be careful with what you put onto an XLR channel, but a KB will be ok??
Apr 26, 2007 10:46 am Should be OK if you pad the mixer input gain down some (a lot).
Apr 26, 2007 10:55 am Would a cheapo DI box work in such a situation? Never used one in that situation, just thinkin' out loud...
Apr 26, 2007 01:07 pm EEk, I wouldn't.
The phones are pushing headphone wattage, maybe small, but not the same as line level. And certainly not the same as mic level.
So pushing phones level signal into the xlr preamp (expecting to see mic level) will be way over-driving the input on the mixer.
More safely, you could plug a 1/4" into the phones jack, and plug the other end of the cable (1/4") into the line input on the same mixer channel. The line in section expects much higher signal than the xlr input wants.
First, turn down the headphone output (or normal volume, whichever controls the headphone volume) all the way.
Plug your cable between keyboard HP jack and mixer line input.
Then, put the gain on that channel at 1/2 way, so you're in the comfort zone.
Then slowly, turn up your keyboard volume while playing a chord, so you start seeing (or hearing) signal coming through the mixer. Stop when the mixer shows good signal, of a decent level. -6db or so would be good. don't play in the red.
* IMPORTANT * Place a piece of tape over the keyboard volume knob, so it can't be turned again. Don't turn up the volume on the keyboard, or you can (and quite possibly will) fry your line input on the mixer, probably making it a dead channel.
Any volume changes MUST be made on the mixer. Gain should be left alone as well, as your gain stage is already set.
If you need more volume, use the fader, that's what it's for. If your fader isn't working enough, you can increase the gain, but only in little bits.
DI box wouldn't be any better, because you're driving the DI input with headphone signal. Not what you want. You can do it, but it may not be any better than the method I described above.
Hope that works out for you.
PS, you know you're only hearing 1 side of the stereo field doing this, right? If you wanted both sides, you'd have to convert the stereo 1/4" plug to (2) mono 1/4" plugs, and plug both of those into their own channel line input on the board. Not necessary, but just wanted you to know.
Apr 26, 2007 01:08 pm what keyboard is it? if it has line out, then that would certainly be the one to choose.
Apr 26, 2007 01:20 pm The cable that dB posted looks to be designed for the purpose mclir9 has in mind. Stereo TRS to XLR. So I'm guessing it has a built-in attenuator, and would probably be fine.
Apr 26, 2007 01:30 pm Good point. I'd check though, as I'd rather be safe than sorry.
Reading through their write-up, I didn't see anything about attenuation.
Apr 26, 2007 01:52 pm Quote:
Stereo TRS to XLR
Are you saying that you can mix down a stereo TRS to mono by using a cable. How would it combine the two tracks? Nevermind, don't need to know the magic. I would like to confirm this though.
Apr 26, 2007 02:04 pm Balanced can live on a TRS, just like it lives in a XLR. 2 signals (one hot, one cold) and one ground.
If you're using a stereo plug from the headphones, to a xlr preamp input, then you're getting all kinds of stuff goofed up.
Two in-phase signals, but different from each other slightly (or a lot, as in beatles' music) being sent to a balanced input jack, will have at least, perplexing results.
To combine stereo track to one mono track, you would have the two signals (L & R) together, in the single mono jack. That's just summing.
Also, stereo is thought of as L, R & ground, whereas balanced is thought of as +, -, and ground (aka, hot, cold & ground).
TRS can carry either: stereo, or balanced, but not both. You'd need 5 conductors for balanced stereo (more likely, 2 cables, with 3 conductors each).
i can be more specific, if need be. Hope that helps.
* edit * to answer quickly, yes, but not with that cable. 1/4" stereo (which is a TRS) to 1/4" mono (which is a TS)
Apr 26, 2007 02:04 pm Those cables are goofy...TRS has three leads, L/R/Ground...XLR has three leads, balanced mono leads and a ground...left goes to one lead, right goes to the other, and ground goes to ground...not rocket surgery, not much to it.
Apr 26, 2007 03:58 pm Ok, so going from the 1/4" to XLR is not a good idea. Should I just MIC the Keyboard instead?? Or should I go get a 50' 1/4" Cable and run it to the Mixer??
Apr 26, 2007 04:05 pm Or better yet, what if I was to just go 1/4" to a small combo guitar amp and then MIC the amp??
Apr 26, 2007 04:10 pm Some snakes come with a couple 1/4" in it along with all the XLR's...
Apr 26, 2007 04:27 pm Quote:
Should I just MIC the Keyboard instead??
Do you mean the built in speakers?
Quote:
what if I was to just go 1/4" to a small combo guitar amp and then MIC the amp??
You're still running into the same issue: sending headphone signal into a preamp, meant for low level signal. Chance of frying the input is present.
I'd go for the 50' cable, 1/4" on keyboard side (won't be stereo, just 1 sided mono) to a 1/4" plug on the mixer side, plug that into the line in on the mixer channel, and set gain like I mentioned above.
You probably won't like the built-in speaker mic'ed into the board, though I could be wrong. It's certainly worth a shot if you can try it out for free.
Apr 30, 2007 08:25 am I went ahead and got a DI Box for $40 and that did the trick. The gig went awesome with the only complaint from the fans being that we only played 14 songs and they wanted a 2nd Set. Could have been worse as far as I'm concerned.
Apr 30, 2007 04:12 pm If the only complaint was an encore, I'd say it went real well :)
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