Apr 10, 2007 12:26 pm Best advice, try them both, download demos and others and try 'em, see what works best for you...
Which software should I use?
Posted on Apr 10, 2007 12:16 pm
mx222
Member Since: Mar 09, 2007
I recently purchased a Line6 KB37 which I really like but I'm having a problem. I have Cubase LE which I find easy to use for recording guitar parts but when I decided to try using the VST instruments with the KB37 it doesn't record in time. There is no latency. When I hit a key on the KB37 it comes through my headphones without delay, even when I've hit the record button. But when I'm recording with the metronome on and I hit a key it shows up in Cubase earlier than I've actually played it. I've looked everywhere for a solution and I can't find one. So I decided to go ahead and try the Ableton Live Lite that came with the KB37. I find it a very busy interface and not nearly as simple as Cubase. All I'm interested in doing right now is laying down drum tracks with the KB37 midi controller and then recording guitar parts over them. If I can get to that point it'll keep me busy for a while. At some point I'd like to compose an entire song but I've get to get past this first. So my question is... what software do all of you recommend for what I want to do, Albeton or Cubase? What are both really designed to do? Is it easier to put drum tracks down with Ableton? Obviously, in order to use Cubase I'll need a solution to my problem and with Ableton I'll have to learn how to use it. I'll certainly take the time to learn the program if it's the best option for what I want to do but I don't want to waste time trying to figure it out if it makes more sense to stick with Cubase. Any help would really be appreciated.
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Apr 10, 2007 12:26 pm Best advice, try them both, download demos and others and try 'em, see what works best for you...
Apr 10, 2007 12:53 pm I was afraid you were going to say that. I'm really new to this recording thing. Do all of these software packages basically do the same thing? Do you know of anywhere that compares the features of each without downloading and learning each one? I guess what I'm getting at is if they all do the same thing and none of them excell in what I'm trying to do I'll stick with Cubase. It's easy to use except for the problem I'm having with the midi controller not syncing when recording. Any ideas on solving that problem? Do you need more info from me? Sorry if these seem like really stupid questions but I'm just getting into recording and trying to learn as I go here.
Apr 10, 2007 01:13 pm They all do the same stuff, just in different ways...it's not my place, or anyone else's to tell you what to use, it's whatever you feel comfortable with. Personally, I like Sonar, Cubase does the same things, just in different ways. You have Cubase, I find Cubase cludgy, but hey, you have it, I'd stick with it and figure it out.
No software will just work right outof the box with no learning...
Apr 10, 2007 01:48 pm Alright, I was just trying to understand if they all did the same thing.
Any ideas on why my midi tracks are recording earlier in the mix than they should in Cubase or should I start a new post just asking this question?
Thanks for the help.
Apr 10, 2007 01:53 pm sounds like an 'adjust latency' type of thing.
though i know not of cubase.
I know Tadpui's been disheartened by cubase's midi capabilities.
I'm a big fan of FL studio for midi work. It's the shiznat.
Apr 10, 2007 02:02 pm Thanks pjk.
I have a version of FL studio, I've just never used it. So would I create the drum tracks in FL studio and then import them into Cubase as an audio track? Would I save the drum track in FL as a .wav file or something else or am I way off base here?
Apr 10, 2007 02:26 pm I do that very thing. Plan out the drum track, and then render down the sections of drum tracks I wanted in 1 channel, and import that into my audio program.
It's more work than other solutions, but I can work in FL pretty well, so I still use it.
Actually, I still do that, as I tried to do a VSTi of FL studio inside reaper, and reaper bombed, taking an hour of midi placements with it. ugh.
So now, I just do my midi stuff in fl-studio, but have reaper open on the second screen, in case I need it. Once I have my drums set, I render down each bundle of tracks, like all the snares, or all the toms, all the cymbals, and make wav files out of them.
You may have to go back and re-make parts every so often, if you're creating, but I found it to be smoother all around.
Plus, I use FL soundfont player, and Sytrus inside FL studio, so I get multiple uses out of it, not just vsti or drum use.
ymmv.
Apr 10, 2007 02:29 pm I have a collection of drum samples, that are pretty decent.
www.kondratko.com/TomHicks/tom_hicks_samples.html
each of these can be loaded into a channel in FL studio, then sequenced out.
I use them pretty often.
Apr 10, 2007 02:43 pm Jeez, with Sonar (which has awesome MIDI functionality) I just build the drum track right there...Then I can tweak and change it at will too without having to go thru a whole export/import fiasco.
Apr 10, 2007 02:52 pm Oh, I agree. But I never got onto the sonar track in the early days, so I'm flavored in a direction already.
for me, cheap was functional, meaning i had more time than money =).
Apr 10, 2007 03:07 pm Wow!!! Thank you!
I'm definetly going to try your method when I get home.
I really appreciate the link to the drum samples.
So are you saying you just drag one of the sample wav files into a channel in FL studio?
I'll have to do some searching on soundfonts and Sytrus as I have no idea what these are but they sound interesting.
Apr 10, 2007 03:18 pm Kinda. I think you may be able to drag samples, but I do it differently:
In the FL studio directory tree, (I'm doing this from memory) there's DATA -> SAMPLES -> USER (i think). Under USER, you can put DRUM SAMPLES, then under that, put each directory of unzipped samples.
Then, while in FL's file tree, at the bottom should be user. Under that will be your samples. Left click on one to listen to it, and right-click -> send to selected channel, or, send to new channel to bring it into the sequencer.
This way works out well to audition each sample, while right inside of FL.
Soundfonts are recordings of a bunch of samples, with different velocities, and such. They can be used kinda like playing samples, but different.
Sytrus is a synthesizer, capable of tons of different synth-type stuff. It also copies other normal instruments, some good, some not so good.
Listen to the HRC Promo in my music gallery, (in my profile, below) for an example of sytrus. the synth sounds in the second half are both sytrus sounds. The drums are FL studio, all tom hicks' stuff, and the bass is boo-bass, from FL Studio.
Both the player, and sytrus are additional purchases from image-line. They both work in FL studio without buying them, but you can't save the data created with them. You can save a project, but any SF or Sytrus info is ignored.
I'll help you out further, getting started if you're inclined.
Apr 10, 2007 03:47 pm Thanks alot pjk.
I appreciate all of your help. I'm going to mess around with it tonight. I'm sure I'll take you up on your offer for further help once I get my feet wet.
Thanks again!
Apr 13, 2007 04:46 pm Well I'm back. The version of FL studio that I have doesn't even allow me to record midi tracks. I've been trying to fix the problem with Cubase and I'm not getting anywhere.
dB, I read your review on Sonar Home Studio and it looks like a nice program. I can't find a demo of it to try out though. Is it good for putting drum tracks and maybe some other VST instruments together using my KB37? I'm assuming it'll work great for recording real instruments (guitar, bass, etc.). Version 6 is only $99 at Musician's Friend right now. If this will relieve my headache I think that's the way I will go.
Apr 14, 2007 12:54 pm db Masters gave some good advice; I've read
that Sonar is really good if you're using midi.
He's also right about using what you started with,
and getting used to it--they all basically function the same.
As for your strange issue, it doesn't sound like
latency, but some problem with the way the
controller sends data. Latency would mean your
signal was arriving or appearing late, not early.
Could you possibly compose the drums first, complete, and send the whole shebang in as an ana-
logue signal (in stereo)? You could go back later
and reconfigure it any way you want by simply
lining up the new drum parts over the old ones. The original drums could serve as a sort of elaborate click track for your guitar and voice
overdubs. I'm assuming here that the KB37 is
like a bona fide drum machine, where both midi and
analogue outs are available
Apr 14, 2007 12:55 pm Wha? Why do I have mx222's avatar under my name?
Apr 14, 2007 04:14 pm Well, I guess because everyone who doesn't pick
an avatar is now getting a default one, so
I got one for myself.
Apr 14, 2007 04:19 pm argh, I better fix that, update gone awry it seems...sorry, I have been doing a ton of back-end changes on the database to increase efficiency one was eliminating null values, so numbers (like avatars) default to "0" and damned if there isn't a "000.gif" avatar...****.
Apr 14, 2007 11:53 pm mx222, you might want to check and make sure your delay compensation isn't set too high in Cubase before you go do anything rash. It sounds like that is what is happening with the notes jumping ahead of the metronome. As you know that is physically impossible, and the problem probably lies in the software settings.
Apr 15, 2007 12:47 am Noize2u,
This is probably a stupid question but where do I set the delay compensation or might it be called something else in Cubase? I searched Cubase help for it and I can't find where I would set that. I'm learning more and more just trying to figure this problem out but I'm still an idiot when it comes to a lot of these terms.
I did notice that when I hit the key on the controller it does put it on the screen in the right place for a millisecond and then slides it back so like you said it's got to be a software setting I just don't know what setting would do that.
Apr 15, 2007 04:21 pm Well although I am not a Cubase user any longer I believe it should be in the audio preferences menu. Probably on the same page as the latency buffer. It may actually be called a buffer of some type as well. What you are looking for is really a control that sees the latency setting and adjusts the input buffer to place the note on the midi track where it really should be. In your case it sounds as if it is not assigning it properly.
If in case Cubase LE does not have any adjustment for that you can slide the track over by a few milliseconds until it lines up properly again.
Apr 15, 2007 11:24 pm Well call me crazy (most do) but I just jumped to Cubase 4 from SX 1 and I love this thing! A lot has to do with existing equipment compatibility but hey whatever works!
First the time streatching methodology is just increadable! Just tack it down where you want the streatching to stop and start and adjust at will anywhere inbetween! Second, they changed the file structures and I can now import mixdowns from Cubase into my Alesis HD 24 and go on the road to pick up that Pain in the butt drummer or whatever! Third, syncronization is da-bomb! Perfect sync and control between Alesis and Cubase! Plugs...gettin better all the time! The multiband compresser really rivels waves. Control Room, Yea! Seperate headphone mixes to those finikey musicians like myself including talk back right from my puter screen!
Ok, Ok, it is true that I started on Cubasic back in the time of Moses and the learning curve is over, but I am happier that a pig in stink!
Apr 16, 2007 11:19 am Thanks for the help Noize. I couldn't find any settings that fixed the problem. I did find I can delay the track on playback so it plays in time but that takes a lot of guess work and the delay is different for every tempo. I'll have to use your suggestion of sliding the track after recording. This will at least get me back to recording instead of constantly messing with this thing. I'll have to do some more research and invest in some software that works correctly. Thanks for your help, I really do appreciate it.
Apr 20, 2007 09:37 pm mx, I wonder then if the LE version just does not have it.
Hey Walt, now you know how I fell about Sonar, and have for awhile. Its always synced perfectly since the first version really. And have a look on Cakewalks website at the C64 Vintage plug. You'll droll all over ye-self wanting to have that bad boy. Not saying PSP vintage warmer is not longer gonna get used but think of the Vintage warmer nuked and on steroids all at the same time.
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